Martin Place Hostage Situation (3 Viewers)

[Amundies]

You ever heard of a strawman argument? Look it up, cause that's exactly what you are doing.

I never said that what the police did was wrong. I don't know all the facts, so I cannot do that.
You, similarly, cannot say that the police's actions were right. You don't know all the facts, so you cannot do that either.

We look at the facts that we do know.

1) This: View attachment 31446
2) 2 people are dead.

Therefore, police failed in their duty to protect.
Really not that difficult.

What would have happened if they had moved in when the gunman initially took hostages? Chances are, all of them would have been killed. The gunman was not as alert as he would have been at midday. Sure, there's a tiny chance that none of the hostages could have been killed, but that's not good enough. Also, what if he wasn't working alone, and he had accomplices with bombs at different parts of the city in case things went sour very quickly for him? That leads to hundreds of lives lost. Police need to assess the situation, and make sure they know everything there is to know before making a move to ensure they don't make the wrong move due to lack of information.

I can explain it slightly differently if you want. At midday, the police had the following facts:
1. There's a guy with a gun inside a cafe.
2. He has hostages.
That is, they had nothing to work with.

 

[studded]

Public officials want us to return to our daily lives. Unfortunately nothing will ever be the same again

It's tragic but these events have occurred in Australia and Sydney more specifically in the past. I think we are fairly reputable for managing to deal with these situations as a collective well. It won't change us if we don't let it.

 

[Swaan]

Ugh guys stop blaming the police for the two people's deaths. Like do you honestly think the police wanted two people to die? Obviously not. Even though not everyone agrees with the decisions they made, it is clear they tried their best. The fault of the deaths belongs to the gunman and him alone. :/

 

[Sy123]

Exactly. No true Scotsman would ever do such a thing.

You obviously don't know what a no true scotsman is. You can call a no true scotsman if I denied him being a Muslim with weak or no evidence, but the evidence I do have is very strong as I said, he claims to be a master of astrology and black magic which is clear shirk and kufr

Most Muslim scholars if not all would consider that person a non-Muslim due to his involvement in clear shirk and kufr

It is not because of him holding those people up hostage, you can't become a non-Muslim for legal reasons, but you can for a theological reasons, this is clear and obvious to anyone with an ounce of understanding of Islam and logic

And you sadly possess neither

 

[Queenroot]

I reckon if I had a gun and I was in the right place at the right time then gg terrorist and no one else would have been hurt

imo guns should be brought back

When you get your firearms license back take down ISIS pls

 

[Squar3root]

When you get your firearms license back take down ISIS pls

 

[Queenroot]

 

[Squar3root]

this girl

 

[BLIT2014]

Sydney siege survivors from all walks of life, bound together by tragedy
Date
December 16, 2014 - 6:30PM
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Rachel Browne
Rachel Browne
Social Affairs Reporter
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Sydney siege ends: live updates
Martin Place attack leaves two hostages dead
Man Haron Monis was on bail
Video shows moment Lindt cafe was stormed
Survivor Marcia Mikhael's message of hope
The 15 siege survivors were a mix of Lindt cafe staff, legal professionals and workers from the Westpac building on Phillip Street.

Five managed to escape the cafe in Martin Place on Monday with the others trapped until the tragic end in the early hours of Tuesday morning.

Fairfax Media has established that those who survived the siege drama include:

Jarrod Hoffman, student Lindt cafe worker



Bondi student and Lindt Cafe worker Jarrod Hoffman was one of the first to flee the cafe early on Tuesday morning.

The 19-year-old's friends stayed up until the early hours following the drama on news sites. When he was seen running from the cafe, his friend Allyce Hunt posted on Facebook: "Was the biggest relief to see him run out those doors."

Mr Hoffman, 19, is a former student of Rose Bay Secondary College and is studying at the University of Technology, Sydney.

Julie Taylor, a barrister with the legal firm Eight Selborne.



Ms Taylor, 35, is pregnant and close friends with Katrina Dawson, who died protecting her friend in the siege, according to reports.

She was one of the hostages forced to make a video which was posted on Monday and one of the last to leave the cafe in the early hours of Tuesday morning.

Ms Taylor looked shocked as she left the cafe wearing conservative business attire, her hands raised,.

Ms Taylor's work profile shows she was admitted as a barrister in 2007 and specialises in corporate law. She was in hospital on Tuesday with her condition listed as stable.

Harriette Denny, Lindt Cafe worker.



Lindt Cafe worker Harriette Denny, 30, was one of the hostages who ran for their lives early on Tuesday. She told her father Robert Denny that she was devastated about the loss of Mr Johnson.

Ms Denny had worked at the cafe for about a year.

She was one of the hostages filmed putting her hands against the shop's front glass window shortly after the siege began.

"I spoke very briefly with Harriette this morning, just asking after her welfare," he said.

"We didn't speak about her ordeal. We just wanted to know she was safe and unharmed. She said that she's safe and well and in a good place, but terribly upset that she's lost her manager and friend [Tori Johnson]."

Marcia Mikhael, Westpac project manager.



Westpac project manager Marcia Mikhael, 43, was carried from the scene with a gunshot wound to her leg. She was in a stable condition in hospital on Tuesday.

The mother of three is well known in the fitness community and won an award at the International Natural Bodybuilding Association World Championship in Greece in July last year. Before joining Westpac, she worked for the NSW Police as a business analyst.

A series of chilling messages appeared on her Facebook page on Monday warning that the gunman would kill the hostages.

She was one of four Westpac workers involved in the tragedy.

Stefan Balafoutis, barrister



Tenth Floor Chambers barrister Stefan Balafoutis was among the first to flee the cafe, making his escape at 3.35pm on Monday.

The Greek-Australian solicitor was called to the bar in 2002, after working as a corporate solicitor. Mr Balafoutis is an alumnus of the University of NSW and lives in Sydney's eastern suburbs.

His escape, along with an older man in a blue jacket, was the first reliable sign that the gunman's control of the siege situation was weakening.

News Limited reported on Tuesday that the man accompanying him was 83-year-old John O'Brian, from Sydney's eastern suburbs.

Elly Chen, Lindt Cafe worker



Cafe worker Elly Chen managed to escape with a female colleague at 5pm on Monday and ran to waiting police officers.

Ms Chen is studying a bachelor of commerce in actuarial science and finance at the University of NSW as well as being a champion swimmer and tennis player. She also coaches tennis and swimming at Presbyterian Ladies College, Sydney.

She was at home recuperating on Tuesday and her family have asked for privacy.

Fiona Ma, Lindt cafe worker



Fiona Ma graduated from James Ruse Agricultural High School last year as one of the state's top students, scoring above 90 in at least five of her HSC subjects.

According to her Facebook profile she has moved to Brisbane to study at the University of Queensland.

Ms Ma posted a message on her Facebook page to assure her friends she was safe, it was reported. "I'm getting your messages everyone!! Thank you, you beautiful souls," she posted. "Guys I love each and every one of you."

Bae Ji-eun



Student and cafe worker Bae Ji-eun's image was splashed across international media as she fled to a waiting police officer after escaping the cafe while the gunman was distracted on Monday afternoon.

The 20-year-old Korean student told SBS that she thought she "would die in there" and she "can't believe what happened to (her boss) Tori."

She escaped the cafe at 5pm on Monday with co-worker Elly Chen

Viswakant Ankit Reddy, Westpac project manager



Mr Reddy's father, L. Eswar Reddy, told the Indian Deccan Heraldfrom his home in Guntur that his daughter-in-law had kept him apprised of siege developments through the night. "God is great," he said. I am happy that Lord Venkateswara and Saibaba heard our prayers."

Viswakant Ankit Reddy is undergoing medical check ups.

Joel Herat✓, Lindt Cafe worker

Joel Herat's YouTube account was used to upload the videos from the hostages. The 21-year-old served a customer from the nearby Garfield Barwick Chambers just before the hostage drama began, with the customer sharing a copy of his receipt along with the chilling words: "The guy who served me . . . [is] being held hostage."

Puspendu Ghosh, Westpac manager

Mr Ghosh is an enthusiastic diver outside work and two years ago participated in a dive to the wreck of the Eleutheria.

Westpac chief executive Gail Kelly expressed her concern for the survivors in a statement which said: "It's a sad day for all of Australia as we learn of the tragic loss of life following the events in Martin Place, Sydney earlier this morning. My heart goes out to anyone touched by this tragedy."

Selina Win Pe

Ms Win Pe, who works in Westpac's "global transformation project", also appeared in a hostage video on Monday night and was one of two hostages photographed holding up a flag in the window at the beginning of the siege. She is a senior server at St Peter's Anglican Church and asked for privacy on Tuesday.

75-year-old female

NSW Police have confirmed the woman received a gunshot wound to the shoulder and is in a stable condition.

52-year-old female

NSW Police have confirmed the woman was shot in the foot and is in a stable condition. Names of the two are yet to be released.

 

[mreditor16]

BLIT any more nice articles or tweets?

 

[nerdasdasd]

BLIT any more nice articles or tweets?

Enough articles tbh.

This is getting depressing

 

[BLIT2014]

Members of the public continue to flock to a memorial in Sydney's CBD near where the deadly siege took place, laying wreaths and paying their respects to the two hostages who were killed.

The volume of people wanted to leave a tribute at Martin Place has seen nearby flower vendors run out of stock.

http://t.co/7GQvcu0YQp

PM @TonyAbbottMHR & Margie Abbott have visited #MartinPlace to lay flowers #sydneysiege #illridewithyou http://t.co/7GQvcu0YQp

 

[BLIT2014]

Twitter
Kerrin Binnie
@kerrinbinnie
PM Abbott: "There was nothing consistent with this individual's life except he was consistently weird" #sydneysiege



Tony Abbott on Man Haron Monis:

"In the past he certainly had been well known to the Australian Federal Police and to ASIO.

"He obviously is currently well known to the NSW Police but I don't believe that he was on a terror watch list at this time."
by Daniel Franklin 5:09 PM

Tony Abbott referring to terror alert level:

"I've had no advice over the last 36 hours to suggest that it should change.

"If it was to go up another notch, that would be to indicate that a terrorist attack is imminent, and, while we can't say what the future holds, I have no intelligence whatsoever to suggest that that might be the case."


Tony Abbott says the public is entitled to ask how someone with a chequered history not be on appropriate watch lists and be at large in the community.

"These are questions that we need to look at carefully and calmly and methodically, to learn the right lessons, and to act upon them. That's what we'll be doing in the days and weeks ahead.

He added:

"Even if this individual, this sick and disturbed individual, had been front and centre on our watch lists, even if this individual had been monitored 24 hours a day, it's quite likely, certainly possible, that this incident could have taken place, because the level of control that would be necessary to prevent people from going about their daily life, would be very, very high indeed."

 

[BLIT2014]

The Mayor Sydney, Clover Moore has defended the police’s handling of the siege and praised the bravery of the officers involved. Speaking to Sky News she said:

I think the police acted incredibly bravely ... they must have had a terrifying time too. The whole incident was managed calmly and professionally. And it was only when a shot was fired, and that’s when we think Tori Johnson might have been shot, that the police moved in ... We think our police are very brave and we have a lot of respect and appreciation for them.

 

[BLIT2014]

6m ago
18:36
So, here’s the state-of play 16 hours after the siege on the Lindt cafe ended with the deaths of Katrina Dawson, Tori Johnson, and instigator Man Haron Monis.

What we know so far:

Two hostages, Lindt Cafe manager Tori Johnson, 34, and Sydney barrister Katrina Dawson, 38, were killed in the final minutes of the siege, along with Monis himself.
Three more hostages received gunshot wounds - all are in a stable condition. A police officer whose face was sprayed from a gunshot is also in a stable condition, he’s been discharged. Two pregnant hostages were checked at hospital.
Monis was known to Australian Federal Police and the ASIO, but he wasn’t on a terrorism watch list.
He was on bail charged with being an accessory to his ex-wife’s murder. NSW Premier Mike Baird said he was “outraged that this guy was on the street”.
Prime Minister Tony Abbott visited Martin Place to pay his respects on Tuesday afternoon. The footpath around Martin Place Station is carpeted with flowers.
Several hostages told reporter Ben Doherty they thought they were going to die in the cafe.
I’m handing over to Matthew Weaver, who’ll keep you informed into the evening.

 

[BLIT2014]

Narendra Modi @narendramodi
Follow
Appreciated PM @TonyAbbottMHR's leadership that led to resolving of the crisis & release of the hostages, which included 2 Indians.
5:04 PM - 16 Dec 2014

 

[nerdasdasd]

I love how certain suddenly becomes geniuses at crises management thinking that "X should of been the right way of doing things".

None of you people have experience or such at dealing with these things.

 

[BLIT2014]

Tony Abbott is holding a press conference with Mike Baird, the premier of NSW.

Abbott says the Sydney hostage siege has “echoed around the world,” calling it an “appalling and ugly incident” and lamenting the loss of life.

“These were decent, good people going about their ordinary lives - it’s about as an innocent thing anyone can do, to grab a coffee before work,” the prime minister said.

Man Haron Monis was a “deeply disturbed individual” who sought to associate himself with the “Isil death cult”, Abbot said. He then thanks the police and praises the “innate goodness and decency which is a mark of the Australian character.”

Baird joins with Abbott in praising the police and ordinary Sydneysiders, predicting that the community will emerge stronger from the experience.

Abbott then answered a question about why Monis was out on bail.

He said:

If I can be candid with you, that is the question that we were asking ourselves at the national security committee of the cabinet today
How can somebody who has had such a long, chequered history not be on the appropriate watch list? And how can someone like that be entirely at large in the community?
Abbott said those questions would be looked at by government, but said putting Monis on a watch list might not have prevented yesterday’s incident.

Even if this individual, this sick and disturbed individual, had been front and centre on our watch list, even if this individual had been monitored 24-hours a day, it’s quite likely, certainly possible, that this incident could have taken place.
Because the level of control that would be necessary to prevent people from going about their daily life would be very high indeed. That said, we’re always looking at what can be done better.
Abbott finished off by branding Monis as “consistently weird”.

 

[BLIT2014]

Earlier today, Queensland Premier Campbell Newman and police commissioner Ian Stewart gave a press conference about events in Sydney.

Newman said there was nothing to suggest a similar incident was being planned in Queensland.

As I said yesterday, intelligence is the key to doing the very best that we can to protect Queenslanders.
We have no information, no information whatsoever, to indicate that there is any such act being contemplated in this state.
Stewart said there would be more police at large public events, including Australia’s test match against India in Brisbane on Wednesday, to “reassure the public”.

 

[BLIT2014]

QLD premier has one of the stranger responses to this event imo