Indonesian spying allegations (2 Viewers)

[obliviousninja]

How should Tony Abbott handle this situation?

 

[hawkrider]

Apologise to Indonesia without delay. Even more importantly, he should establish a wide-ranging inquiry, preferably a royal commission, into Australia's intelligence and security agencies.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[iJimmy]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...indonesian-spying-program-20131119-2xsn4.html

was anything of significant concern found through the spying? Why worry, Abbot should not apologise, we're a first world country like USA, too much fuss over a little ordeal.

 

[Audranda]

Doubt Abbott will apologise given the recent reports on the spying controversy, however it is imperative that some action should be done to repair the exacerbated relationship between Australia and Indonesia, through their assistance with the asylum seeker issue as an example.

 

[JT145]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...indonesian-spying-program-20131119-2xsn4.html

was anything of significant concern found through the spying? Why worry, Abbot should not apologise, we're a first world country like USA, too much fuss over a little ordeal.

It's not if anything was found, it's the fact that the spying occurred to a nation in which was considered an important trading and regional partner.

 

[SylviaB]

hang the leaker

 

[newcastle2012]

Allege that they are making nuclear weapons and invade with the US in support to overthrow the regime and decommission the weapons. But honestly Indonesia needs to take a pill of harden the hell up as they are most likely also spying on us. But really a royal commission into our security agencies? The terrorists would be lapping up all the documents being released by people attempting to be "whistleblowers" e.g. Edward Snowden who are nothing less than traitors and should be treated as such.

 

[wannaspoon]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...esia-retaliates-on-spying-20131120-2xvxu.html

''That's why I take this matter seriously, not only from the legal point of view … this [tapping] violates [all laws] including human rights. This is about the morals and ethics of a good friend.''

Quoted from: Dr. Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono

find it hard to believe that the head of state of Indonesia can actually lecture about violations of Human Rights... Yes, Indonesia has taken steps to better their human rights record... However, its not merely enough to be taking the moral high ground on this one...

on another note, its good to see some credibility restored to Australian spy agencies... they were starting to look like quite an incompetent organisation (not that they don't at the moment)... But, I honestly did not believe they were capable of spying to such calibre... It was probably with the help of the US but... chances are, Indonesia are chasing the wrong crowd for an apology...

tensions haven't been this high since the 1963 - 66 Indonesian Confrontation...

 

[Rafy]

It would have come as no surprise to SBY that his phone was tapped. He and other world leaders would just assume that there's number of intelligence agencies listening into the calls they make. The Indonesian Government is hyperventilating over the issue for the domestic audience.

The Indonesians admitted to bugging Australian politicians and officials during the East Timor conflict.

Phone tapping national leaders 'normal', says former Indonesian spy chief

 

[wannaspoon]

It would have come as no surprise to SBY that his phone was tapped. He and other world leaders would just assume that there's number of intelligence agencies listening into the calls they make. The Indonesian Government is hyperventilating over the issue for the domestic audience.

The Indonesians admitted to bugging Australian politicians and officials during the East Timor conflict.

Phone tapping national leaders 'normal', says former Indonesian spy chief

its not wrong unless you're caught or have found some incriminating evidence you can use to blackmail, dispose of a government not playing ball, etc...

 

[isildurrrr1]

Apologise to Indonesia without delay. Even more importantly, he should establish a wide-ranging inquiry, preferably a royal commission, into Australia's intelligence and security agencies.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

yeah what a great way to destroy your own intelligence agencies. wtf did you people think spies do? they spy on people, that's their job. Spying is the norm amongst countries and leaders, but getting caught is a huge fucking embarrassment. You know what happens to spies who've been outed? A dead fucking career.

Jasmeet: You do realize all of Australia's export goes through indonesian waters and territory right? Way to piss off someone where a major part of your economy goes through, not to mention Indonesia is an EXTREMELY important security partner for Australia in terms of counter-terrorism and a HUGE partner to help stop the boats that you fuckers bitch about. Telling Indonesia to "harden the fuck up" is just playing right into their hands, make Australia look like a dumbass arrogant country.

 

[wannaspoon]

make Australia look like a dumbass arrogant country.

so wait, you are saying don't tell them to harden up because it will make us look arrogant... but, don't apologise and come off to the Indonesian's as arrogant fuckers...

its a catch 22 situation which, I feel, Australia will have to eventually apologise for...

hearing about spies always makes me feel like playing Team Fortress 2...

can't get past all the 12 year olds with microphones but...

 

[isildurrrr1]

so wait, you are saying don't tell them to harden up because it will make us look arrogant... but, don't apologise and come off to the Indonesian's as arrogant fuckers...

Look at how America is dealing with the fallout of spying allegations. They don't go around telling people "lol tough titties." That's how you lose allies and trade ties REALLY quickly. People know your spying on them, it's what you say and how you handle the situation. Doesn't help when a goddamn lib minister says the indonesian foreign minister looks like a porn star does it? People just couldn't keep their stupidity to themselves these days. I still lolz @ news comments about cutting off foreign aid to indonesia, when we practically TRAINED their secret police and death squads to fight our dirty wars for us.

 

[newcastle2012]

So you think that Indonesia doesn't have any intelligence operations in Australia isildurrrr1? If so that is pretty damn narrow minded because these days everyone is monitoring everyone every single intelligence agency is looking for that one advantage over their rivals and in such a complex diplomatic climate as today every advantage is critical. Now seriously at the moment Indonesia just needs to harden up it happens to every country and whining about it isn't going to do much good. Anyway if we were monitoring their phones don't you think that our security agencies thought they were hiding something from us? and if it was important enough to tap the phones of the PM don't you think the intelligence would have been significant?

 

[isildurrrr1]

So you think that Indonesia doesn't have any intelligence operations in Australia isildurrrr1? If so that is pretty damn narrow minded because these days everyone is monitoring everyone every single intelligence agency is looking for that one advantage over their rivals and in such a complex diplomatic climate as today every advantage is critical. Now seriously at the moment Indonesia just needs to harden up it happens to every country and whining about it isn't going to do much good. Anyway if we were monitoring their phones don't you think that our security agencies thought they were hiding something from us? and if it was important enough to tap the phones of the PM don't you think the intelligence would have been significant?

I never said that. Indo's are probably tapping on Abbots phones. Same goes for the Brits, Chinese and Americans. It's just the whole affair is about how you handle it politically and Abbott isn't doing a very good job when he's trying to increase better relations. Australia got caught and the government is playing right into the hand's of the Indonesian government. Everyone is using the shitty excuse "hurr but everyone spies on each other," well no shit sherlock but getting caught doing it is pretty embarrassing.

 

[Kiraken]

So you think that Indonesia doesn't have any intelligence operations in Australia isildurrrr1? If so that is pretty damn narrow minded because these days everyone is monitoring everyone every single intelligence agency is looking for that one advantage over their rivals and in such a complex diplomatic climate as today every advantage is critical. Now seriously at the moment Indonesia just needs to harden up it happens to every country and whining about it isn't going to do much good. Anyway if we were monitoring their phones don't you think that our security agencies thought they were hiding something from us? and if it was important enough to tap the phones of the PM don't you think the intelligence would have been significant?

You're missing the point, its not about the spying itself its about the response when you get caught

 

[bunniez]

it was me

 

[newcastle2012]

I know that everyone spies on each other but what I am trying to prove is that but I think it is a bit ironic that everyone knows they are being spied on but when they are caught it's like "hey guys we are sorry we got caught this time next time we will make sure we aren't caught doing it." It may come of a bit out there but I am more dispositioned towards an more authoritarian society purely because there is so much stupid stuff that happens in a democracy that I think some people just need to harden up while those who do wrong need to be punished to the exact extent of the harm they caused e.g. murder, treason, group sexual assault = death penalty. Anyway all of those people burning our flag at the embassy and the threats of violence against our citizens over this seriously is childish of Indonesia and that is where I get my "harden the hell up" attitude on the matter from.

 

[isildurrrr1]

I know that everyone spies on each other but what I am trying to prove is that but I think it is a bit ironic that everyone knows they are being spied on but when they are caught it's like "hey guys we are sorry we got caught this time next time we will make sure we aren't caught doing it." It may come of a bit out there but I am more dispositioned towards an more authoritarian society purely because there is so much stupid stuff that happens in a democracy that I think some people just need to harden up while those who do wrong need to be punished to the exact extent of the harm they caused e.g. murder, treason, group sexual assault = death penalty. Anyway all of those people burning our flag at the embassy and the threats of violence against our citizens over this seriously is childish of Indonesia and that is where I get my "harden the hell up" attitude on the matter from.

You'd see bogans on the street saying "fuck those asians" and doing the same shit if the Indo's were caught tapping our PM's phones. The actions from the government vs the actions from the people are completely different things. If Indonesia was someone like Iran or China nobody would give a shit (we got caught tapping the Chinese embassy in canberra lulz), but someone who has extremely important MILITARY and ECONOMIC relations with us on the other hand... doesn't look good at all.

I'm actually surprised Abbott didn't blame this whole thing on labor as his get out of jail free card.

 

[iPhone4]

Abbott should've just straight up apologised. Even if they continue operations (which they will) , an apology is a very simple and easy way to diffuse tensions immediately and try and hurry it out of the media.

The problem now is if Abbott apologises now or even later down the track, it will look very bad for his image and political/diplomatic skills, and the apology would seem very forced or fake.

Abbott has handled this very badly. In attempting to feign a look of a statesman he now looks naive and incompetent, by being unwilling to cooperate.