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Does God exist? (14 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


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Absolutezero

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And to those who say "we have not seen God so how can he exist", i beg of you to show me first hand the process of evolution and the big-bang, and then i'll reconsider everything i've ever said to anyone.
Neither the proof of God or evolution and the big-bang would necessarily need an eye-witness to prove.

As for showing you the process of the big-bang and (especially) evolution, read pretty much any science book ever, and they'll outline it for you.
 

funkshen

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Neither the proof of God or evolution and the big-bang would necessarily need an eye-witness to prove.

As for showing you the process of the big-bang and (especially) evolution, read pretty much any science book ever, and they'll outline it for you.
this is really an inadequate reply, because we do have indisputable, "eye-witness" evidence of evolution [1][2]. selective breeding is also prima facie evidence for the possibility of evolution due to solely environmental factors. it is for this reason that evolution has been coopted into most religious programs - even the mormons don't deny evolution. muslims and young earth creationists are pretty much the last bastion of evolution denial.
 

SylviaB

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but anyone who's studied any sort of science - whether it be astronomy or microbiology - must've at least questioned the divine harmony of all these processes.
If there hadn't been "harmony" (from an entirely anthropocentric perspective) then we wouldn't be alive to contemplate it, much like only those who survive a firing squad are capable of astonishment at their good fortune.

And god is omnipotent, he could have created the universe any way he pleased and still had humans survive. If he so wanted it, he could have made humans surive in a cold vacuum, underwater, or without blood. We exist the way we do because the universe is a certain way; the universe is not the way it is so that we can exist the way we do.

but it is illogical to turn a blind eye to every other idea out there besides the one you've been told of your whole life,
So yes, most muslims are illogical.

And to those who say "we have not seen God so how can he exist"
It's not that we haven't see him, its that there's no evidence from which we can infer his existence.
 

Absolutezero

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this is really an inadequate reply, because we do have indisputable, "eye-witness" evidence of evolution [1]. selective breeding is also prima facie evidence for the possibility of evolution due to environmental causes. it is for this reason that evolution has been coopted into most religious programs - even the mormons don't deny evolution. muslims and young earth creationists are pretty much the last bastion of evolution denial.
But is Lenski's material really going to be of any use to someone who already denies the premise? I know where you're coming from, but I didn't even bother extrapolating on it because it's not needed to prove the theory, and it's not the type of Crocoduck macro-evidence they want to see anyway.
 

Kiraken

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Well cosmic microwave background radiation is evidence for the big bang lol so yasmine is definitely wrong there too
 

moll.

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"Islam came about around 600 years after Christianity. Therefore, it's 600 years behind. So for the Islamic world, the year is actually 1434 and they're all happy burning/stoning witches, pretending the world is flat or the sky is held up by mountains and just generally being little shitheads."

Discuss, in 500 words or less.
 

Kiraken

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"Islam came about around 600 years after Christianity. Therefore, it's 600 years behind. So for the Islamic world, the year is actually 1434 and they're all happy burning/stoning witches, pretending the world is flat or the sky is held up by mountains and just generally being little shitheads."

Discuss, in 500 words or less.
:(
 

SylviaB

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Well cosmic microwave background radiation is evidence for the big bang lol so yasmine is definitely wrong there too
She didn't say there's no evidence, she was talking about seeing it "first hand". In which case, she's right.
 

Kiraken

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She didn't say there's no evidence, she was talking about seeing it "first hand". In which case, she's right.
well if she had the appropriate equipment she could detect this radiation first hand lol
 

SylviaB

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ugh look at the context: she's talking about being unable to SEE god, and so she means to OBSERVE the big bang taking place, not infer it
 

yasminee96

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Neither the proof of God or evolution and the big-bang would necessarily need an eye-witness to prove.

As for showing you the process of the big-bang and (especially) evolution, read pretty much any science book ever, and they'll outline it for you.
That's like a believer telling you to read any Holy Book out there to note the existence of God though?


this is really an inadequate reply, because we do have indisputable, "eye-witness" evidence of evolution [1][2]. selective breeding is also prima facie evidence for the possibility of evolution due to solely environmental factors. it is for this reason that evolution has been coopted into most religious programs - even the mormons don't deny evolution. muslims and young earth creationists are pretty much the last bastion of evolution denial.
I'm definitely not denying evolution, but im not suggesting that it is DEFINITE there is a God either (i personally just have faith and hope in one, because i've watched myself fall and get picked up again so many times just by getting back to routinely prayers, but that's a personal note :))

If there hadn't been "harmony" (from an entirely anthropocentric perspective) then we wouldn't be alive to contemplate it, much like only those who survive a firing squad are capable of astonishment at their good fortune.

And god is omnipotent, he could have created the universe any way he pleased and still had humans survive. If he so wanted it, he could have made humans surive in a cold vacuum, underwater, or without blood. We exist the way we do because the universe is a certain way; the universe is not the way it is so that we can exist the way we do.
sure, that's reasonable that it could've been achieved in any way, but perhaps, if there is a God, God had created the universe in such a harmonic way so that humans can appreciate it and question its divinity. Besides that though, personally i can't accept the theory that all this harmony, and the idea that one mistake in the universe could mess up EVERYTHING, happened by chance, and is all a coincidence - personally.


So yes, most muslims are illogical.
That's a generalisation and a stereotype. Most muslims that i know are always asking questions, always interested in other beliefs and sects of Islam, and in classes where we learn of evolution, a majority of us TRY to understand it all, and see why it would make sense. What you're referring to is the stereotypical muslims that are portrayed in the media every second day, but in reality aren't true muslims.



It's not that we haven't see him, its that there's no evidence from which we can infer his existence.
"Can you prove that you exist? Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine that you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things that He has created and the way that He cares for things and sustains us, to know that there is no doubt of His existence.

Think about this the next time that you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect that it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not.

And then consider if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.

Can a fast food restaurant operate itself without any people there? That's crazy for anyone to even think about.

After considering all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the molecules in a microscope and then think that all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident?" " source :http://www.islamtomorrow.com/god_proof.asp

ugh look at the context: she's talking about being unable to SEE god, and so she means to OBSERVE the big bang taking place, not infer it
yeh, this is what i mean.

and you're doing physics and biology for the HSC
reading from a textbook the idea and the story of evolution, and learning about it, isn't exactly first-hand data. And i'm asking about the actual process that's happened, show me some sort of first-hand evidence, of someone watching evolution occur - this is what i'm saying. I definitely am not saying that i watched God make the universe lol, but what i'm trying to say is that IF you can show me this process, i'll be happy to reconsider my ideas on evolution and how accurate i believe it is . :)
 

SylviaB

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sure, that's reasonable that it could've been achieved in any way, but perhaps, if there is a God, God had created the universe in such a harmonic way so that humans can appreciate it and question its divinity.


Besides that though, personally i can't accept the theory that all this harmony, and the idea that one mistake in the universe could mess up EVERYTHING, happened by chance, and is all a coincidence - personally.
So many presuppositions. You're presupposing the existence of life, the existence of humans, the existence of humans precisely as they are right now.

Humans exist as they do because of the nature of the universe, NOT the other way around. If you assume the existence of humans i.e. that humans are meant to exist or the "point" of the universe is the existence oif humans, then sure, everything looks magical. But in reality humans are just a consequence of what happens to be the nature of the universe. There is no reason anything is meant to exist. Human action has on numerous occasions interfered with nature such that new species or subspecies have evolved that otherwise wouldn't have if things had been left to their natural cause. Doesn't this seem strange given that everything is designed and that all the animals were created by allah?
See how the conditions that eventuate dictate what exists and what doesn't?

There's no reason for the universe to be so fragile and harmonious, allah could (and seemingly should) have made the universe to be anything, literally anything, and still have had humans survive. It makes no sense that he would make things so delicate.

And for something designed so 'harmonically', isnt it strange that less than 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the universe is capable of sustaining human life? And that even on earth, only a fraction of the land isn't water, dessert or ice?

That's a generalisation and a stereotype. Most muslims that i know are always asking questions, always interested in other beliefs and sects of Islam, and in classes where we learn of evolution, a majority of us TRY to understand it all, and see why it would make sense. What you're referring to is the stereotypical muslims that are portrayed in the media every second day, but in reality aren't true muslims.
Do these really seem like an open-minded group of people?


And no, those percentages mean percentage of all muslims in a given country.

"Can you prove that you exist? Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine that you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam.
Cool but I was referring to your strawman, that out disbelief in allah comes from a lack of being able to see him.

We can look to the things that He has created and the way that He cares for things and sustains us, to know that there is no doubt of His existence.
Let's assume that this proves the existence of A god: why is it any more proof of allah than any other of the thousands of gods that people have and continue to believe in?

And then consider if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.
There is nothing special about earth UNLESS YOU PRESUPPOSE THAT HUMANS WERE MEANT TO EXIST.

A mercedes is a very precise and predetermined contraption. The earth is simply a bunch of elements which react with other elements. Some of these chemical reactions are favored given the randomly determined conditions of earth, which in turn favors the creation of certain compounds. If conditions had been different, different reactions would have been favored and life would have been different, but there's no reason why this is any more or less amazing than the life that would have resulted had conditions remained the same.


reading from a textbook the idea and the story of evolution, and learning about it, isn't exactly first-hand data. And i'm asking about the actual process that's happened, show me some sort of first-hand evidence, of someone watching evolution occur - this is what i'm saying.
You would be absolutely astonished by how much of the technology you use on a daily basis was developed using theories which lacked "first-hand" evidence.
 

Bremjo96

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God is simply a view created by people many years ago to explain how there world worked and how it was created. Today he still is what millions of people use to explain things they cannot understand. So in a way he is reasoning constructed by the people that need it the most.
I believe in many things that prove God to be non-existing, however I still like the idea in my times of need as so to comfort me. But it is impossible to prove which will always make it a theory and until proven to be true with hard evidence, he will always remain a theory.
 

hit patel

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you can't prove that god is real or fake... the questions just keeps going round and round no matter how hard you think about it.. personally i hate religions.. so god doesn't exist in my world
Thats more like stupidity. No offense
 

funkshen

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the real question is do gods exist haha checkmate monotheists!
 

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