Please help me make a decision :( ... its killing me (2 Viewers)

[erespall]

Hi guys

Ive been agonising over this decision for days and figured i may as well ask around for suggestions so anyway here goes.

OK so Law/Comm (Specifically UNSW) has been my absolute dream for the past 3 years and was what drove me to get off my ass and work as hard as I possibly could. I genuinely want to be a lawyer, not for the money! I probably would've gotten an ATAR somewhere in the 70's/80's without the prospect of law. Needless to say I still got a (relatively) shit ATAR of 90.70, however I've been told I can still make it in and after mulling this over in my head for the last few days I've come up with a few choices on how best to possibly do this but wanted some external input into any suggestions on whether or not I should or should not follow these paths.

Right so I've narrowed it down to 2 options more or less as my EAS worked for everything except the Sydney uni's (maq, UTS, USYD, NSW etc.) Basically I can still make UTS Business which i hear is quite good with 5 bonus points from English which should get me in seeing as how its a 92. After 1 year, apply to transfer to Combined law at UTS or UNSW, and if that fails then just simply transfer to UNSW commerce to finish the comm degree and then apply for post grad law.

My second choice is to do Arts at UNSW and then the same deal with transferring to Law after (hopefully) achieving a D avg. same as the UTS plan, however the only problem is that Arts doesn't seem to interest me too much and if i don't make it into law after 1 year then I'm pretty much stuck with a degree which i might probably hate. However during the Law info evening the Dean told me that it's easier to internal transfer from within UNSW than another university.

This is where I'm stuck.... (oh i should probably mention i REAALLLY dislike the UTS campus, the uni's great and all but i just honestly hate the campus and absolutely love the UNSW campus... not a fan of Usyd campus for some reason either) Anyway, either I go to UTS in a great degree and try to transfer though though I'm not too keen on the campus and might not even enjoy myself, or I go to UNSW Arts degree, be in my favourite uni campus and try to transfer at risk of being stuck in a degree which I may just as easily end up hating and lose a year if i end up transferring to UNSW commerce...
(oh I was also thinking about international studies at UNSW because I have 5 bonus points towards it but its still cutting it a bit to close to the cutoff)

So yeah, sorry if I've bored your brains out with this or if just seems like another lost cause story, I tried to think this through myself and not bother you guys with it but the anxiety over this is killing me. Any help, input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

p.s. if theres any shitty typos, its OSX Lion's shitty auto correct.

Edit: Also, working my ass off to trying and get a specific average mark is no issue, I have all the motivation i need and NEVER slack off, never did during hsc and never will during uni.

 

[AussieVesti]

Aye, it does look like you're in a bit of dilemma.

Looking at this in a practical viewpoint, UTS would probably be the best option because the units you do in that degree is probably more compatible with the Commerce component of the UNSW Combined degree. This will allow you to credit units you have done at UTS into your UNSW degree.

The problem with doing Arts at UNSW is that the ability to credit units is a bit more restricted unless you were combining Law with Arts (which you don't). Otherwise, see what you can do with a Commerce-related degree and then do a Juris Doctor.

 

[erespall]

If say i didn't make law UTS or law UNSW after 1st year, would you say that simply transferring from Business to COmm UNSW would be easier seeing as how their almost identical core outlines. And the fact that i might not need a D avg. to transfer from a Business UTS to Comm UNSW?

 

[AussieVesti]

If say i didn't make law UTS or law UNSW after 1st year, would you say that simply transferring from Business to COmm UNSW would be easier seeing as how their almost identical core outlines. And the fact that i might not need a D avg. to transfer from a Business UTS to Comm UNSW?

Yes, I think so. It's a better option than doing Arts because you may end up not being able to transfer in the end and you'll graduate with something you didn't want in the first place. A distinction average is still your best bet for transfers though. High credits could work but passes are an absolute no-go zone so I would still recommend you aim as high as possible.

 

[erespall]

hmm ok thankyou.. With that in mind I'm more inclined to lean towards UTS Businees, however one last question... um, in terms of actually getting the transfer consideration which one of these would give me the best chance? UTS Business or USYD Arts economics. Since their both business orientated, theres less significantly less chance ill hate the degree if i get stuck in USYD arts economics maj.

 

[AussieVesti]

hmm ok thankyou.. With that in mind I'm more inclined to lean towards UTS Businees, however one last question... um, in terms of actually getting the transfer consideration which one of these would give me the best chance? UTS Business or USYD Arts economics. Since their both business orientated, theres less significantly less chance ill hate the degree if i get stuck in USYD arts economics maj.

Unless you are interesting in majoring in Economics, I would still recommend UTS Business. I perceive them to be somewhat comparable but more of your units at UTS will be credited to a Comm/Law program.

 

[erespall]

OK looks like UTS comm is my best bet.

Thanks for the help and advice, much appreciated, made choosing easier to deal with...

well thats a load off my chest hahahaha

 

[enoilgam]

I reakon you should try Notre Dame law. If law is what you really want to do, then its a good idea to get into it straight away. Transfering is a good idea, but it might take you a little while and by that time, your motivation and desire to study might be wanning.

 

[andyfg88]

How about Macquarie? The cut off is generally 95-96 but they have been known to accept much less, its worth a shot. If you get in and you're not happy you could always then apply for UNSW and you wouldn't lose anything because you'd get it all credited.

 

[erespall]

How about Macquarie? The cut off is generally 95-96 but they have been known to accept much less, its worth a shot. If you get in and you're not happy you could always then apply for UNSW and you wouldn't lose anything because you'd get it all credited.

Hmm macquarie sounds good too. Have you heard how low they can go? My EAS application was successful but for some reason only applied to the unis other than Uts USYD unsw and Macquarie and I don't think theres any way to appeal it. If it worked I would have been set. Sigh

 

[andyfg88]

Hmm macquarie sounds good too. Have you heard how low they can go? My EAS application was successful but for some reason only applied to the unis other than Uts USYD unsw and Macquarie and I don't think theres any way to appeal it. If it worked I would have been set. Sigh

I heard last year they accepted applicants with UAI's around the low 90s. So you might be just right. I myself transferred in with a credit average.

In terms of teaching style, it is similar to USYD in some respect. I would say the level of marking in particular and the core units (i.e. Jurisprudence) are the best examples. However it is a bit alternative in other aspects, for example, a majority of exams are take home and not sit-ins and International Law is a core subject. A lot of people think that having taking home exams is advantageous, to some extent it actually isn't; I mean yes you have a bit more time to work on it, but the level of marking is a lot higher because of it.

And sometimes it can actually be a disadvantage, take for example my Equity class this summer... The final exam is worth 60%, its 2,500 words and it gets released at 8am and is due by 3pm the same day. Ridiculous.

The bad thing about Macquarie in my view is that it has undergone a lot of financial strain, and it shows. For instance, tutorial times have been cut from two hours to one hour, there is no dedicated "law" building as such and the law school itself has been subsumed into the Faculty of Arts. Otherwise if it's prestige you're after, well.... generality the measure of prestige is based on not only the calibre of graduates but how long the law school has been around for.

Macquarie is the third oldest in NSW after USYD and UNSW.

The verdict? It's hard to say, I've just finished my Arts degree there and one year of my law degree. Some lecturers are absolutely brilliant and know their stuff beyond measure, Penelope and Illija are some of those (I also hear Shayne is brilliant), they are very traditional and you can really learn a lot. Some are super difficult and have a notorious reputation for it, George comes to mind.

But to be honest in the end, a law school is a law school as you have probably heard... you will learn the cases and legislation as anyone else. The teaching styles may differ from school-to-school but at the end of it all you only get out of it what you put in. And if you really are passionate about law, you will thrive.

Even if you went to UWS, if you came out with a Distinction or a HD average nobody is going to say you are not a dedicated or talented individual.

 

[erespall]

Oh wow, very interesting. Hmm the only reason I'm shying away from UWS is because I'm afraid it might hurt my transferring chances. Though Mac definitely sounds like a good law school, definitely going to consider it in my preferences. Hopefully I might get an early offer somewhere which would defs help with taking the stress off hahaha. Now to revise my whole law entry strategy.... Again

 

[andyfg88]

Oh wow, very interesting. Hmm the only reason I'm shying away from UWS is because I'm afraid it might hurt my transferring chances. Though Mac definitely sounds like a good law school, definitely going to consider it in my preferences. Hopefully I might get an early offer somewhere which would defs help with taking the stress off hahaha. Now to revise my whole law entry strategy.... Again

Yeah UWS might hurt your chances of transferring... I applied to transfer to UTS from Macq and was offered a place for post-graduate law (JD). I don't know if I'll take it yet.

The Macquarie Law school is not brilliant, it is severely underfunded and the quality of teaching is questionable at times (like I said above). Although it does have everything that all the other law schools have, mooting, exchange programmes, a decent list of electives and a very very very very very active law society.

What counts the most is your dedication, other newer law schools such as UWS are pumping enormous amounts into their law schools (from what I hear) to make up for various factors such as prestige and to attract people with higher UAIs.

At the end of the day, the decision should depend on where you think you'll be:

a) comfortable
b) happy
c) where you can see yourself staying at if you never get the chance to transfer to UNSW or USYD.
d) probably the most important one: how much effort you're willing to put in.

I should also mention that generally speaking MQ's Business/Economics/Finance type degrees are quite highly regarded...

 

[erespall]

At the end of the day, the decision should depend on where you think you'll be:

a) comfortable
b) happy
c) where you can see yourself staying at if you never get the chance to transfer to UNSW or USYD.
d) probably the most important one: how much effort you're willing to put in.

Well in terms of where I'll be comfortable, happy and see myself staying it's definitely 100% unsw and in regards to how much effort I'm willing to put in. That's limit less. I can and will put in as much as I need too. Motivation is no issue, I'm driven to get into unsw law (preferably) like a bat out of hell. My preference for unsw isn't based on prestige that it offers, it's just that it's where I'm most comfortable and tbh I love the campus.

It's just the path I take to get there that I have to decide on which is what's causing me the most problems. Though ATM business at UTS to transfer from seems like a very solid option and as Aussie said, the credits for the commerce departments are very compatible due to the similarities of the two unis. That said, if I don't make law at Uts or unsw then I will transfer to commerce at unsw to finish the degree before trying for unsw JD if all else fails. That way at least I can get to unsw itself. How hard was it for you to get the wam u needed to transfer?

 

[andyfg88]

Well in terms of where I'll be comfortable, happy and see myself staying it's definitely 100% unsw and in regards to how much effort I'm willing to put in. That's limit less. I can and will put in as much as I need too. Motivation is no issue, I'm driven to get into unsw law (preferably) like a bat out of hell. My preference for unsw isn't based on prestige that it offers, it's just that it's where I'm most comfortable and tbh I love the campus.

It's just the path I take to get there that I have to decide on which is what's causing me the most problems. Though ATM business at UTS to transfer from seems like a very solid option and as Aussie said, the credits for the commerce departments are very compatible due to the similarities of the two unis. That said, if I don't make law at Uts or unsw then I will transfer to commerce at unsw to finish the degree before trying for unsw JD if all else fails. That way at least I can get to unsw itself. How hard was it for you to get the wam u needed to transfer?

Check ur PM.

Another option maybe worth considering is to do a commerce/law degree at Macquarie or even at UWS and work on doing more commerce subjects than law and also utilise summer school. Then try to maintain a Distinction average and apply for UNSW. If you finish your commerce component u can apply to graduate and then apply for the JD at UNSW and u should probably get in with that D average. Any law subjects you have done will be credited towards the JD.

 

[EpikHigh]

This may sound dumb but I'm just putting it out there, have you ever though of resitting your HSC?

 

[erespall]

Haha no. I was doing incredibly shit in year 11 and worked my ass of to get my ranks up from avg of 30's up to where they are now in my sig. Never missed a single day of school in the process, that determined. But yeah i would rather not experience that again and considering only a handful of people got over 90 in my school, myself included I'm not going to complain about my atar.

 

[EpikHigh]

Haha no. I was doing incredibly shit in year 11 and worked my ass of to get my ranks up from avg of 30's up to where they are now in my sig. Never missed a single day of school in the process, that determined. But yeah i would rather not experience that again and considering only a handful of people got over 90 in my school, myself included I'm not going to complain about my atar.

I admire that, you had good self determination and you ranked really well, and 90.70 is still a good ATAR not much I can say about you Uni, but all the best man!

 

[AussieVesti]

This may sound dumb but I'm just putting it out there, have you ever though of resitting your HSC?

I would never advise anyone to do that. It's never a good idea.

 

[izzy88]

I would never advise anyone to do that. It's never a good idea.

I agree. Never a good idea. There are lots of other ways to get where you want if you have the motivation. It may take a bit longer, but you can do it.

In any case an atar over 90 is fantastic! Definitely no need to even think of repeating hsc. For interest sake, I remember discussing with a teacher once about resitting hsc subjects - those that do rarely do better than the first time, instead they just loose motivation, and generally do worse off, or not significantly better.