Does the Burka restrict the freedom of women (1 Viewer)

[AgentGreeny]

I watched the whole video. But what Jesus myths is it actually 'debunking'? You mean things like "He was born in Bethlehem", "Three Magi came from the East", "He rose from the dead after three days", "He was crucified".

I mean, the point where I just went - "Nah, okay: wait.... what?" - was when it gave the 'astrological explanation' about crucifixion at 3:20-odd. I'm not sure we can give an astrological explanation, because it actually happened - I think most of us can agree that it's an historical event, I think that it is an historical event. iirc, Muslims don't believe it happened but... who knows.

So I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take back from that - is it, "These Jesus myths are all wrong because there's a perfectly logical astrological/astronomical explanation for all of it"?

We can't DISPROVE the bible, all we can hope to do is come up with rational explanations for why people seemed to believe this stuff. But since the bible doesn't offer any concrete evidence that its stories are actually true (at least not more than any other holy book) and since it makes supernatural claims, there's no real reason to believe it.

 

[Shadowdude]

We can't DISPROVE the bible, all we can hope to do is come up with rational explanations for why people seemed to believe this stuff. But since the bible doesn't offer any concrete evidence that its stories are actually true (at least not more than any other holy book) and since it makes supernatural claims, there's no real reason to believe it.

Or, you can look at non-Biblical historical accounts and go "Okay, this reputable historian said 'x' happened. The Bible said 'x' happened, so we can assume the Bible is correct historically in the regard of whether 'x' happened or not".

I know for a fact that my Chemistry teacher at school basis his Christian faith partially on the historical accuracy of the Bible. Now I myself haven't roamed historical documents and did that sort of thing at all - but that's what he said one lesson. But that's partially why he believes in what he believes in.

Plus, you can't disprove the Bible - of course. You can't completely disprove any religious text. You can however, call into serious question or even fully disprove, parts of it. For example, if a religious text said "In the year 2000 AD, we will all have flying cars" - you can be pretty sure that part is completely wrong.

 

[sweet_16]

In Chapter 24 of the Quran, God tells both men and women to restrain their eyes from ogling at members of the opposite sex and to guard their private parts. Specific to women in this chapter is verse 32, which instructs women to “disclose not their beauty except that which is apparent thereof, and that they draw their head-coverings over their bosoms.”

The variations, however, of the dress are purely cultural. There is the burqa (or niqab), which is a full length dress or outer clothing that covers the head, face and body. The hijab, on the other hand, covers the head and neck, with a separate piece — like a shawl or long coat — covers the body. The face is not covered with the hijab. The Quranic injunction found in chapter 24 is more closely aligned with the hijab. Which style a Muslim woman chooses to wear depends on tradition and cultural variation.

 

[sweet_16]

Did you people forget that Christianity also prescribes the observance of headscarves, which is why First Lady Michelle Obama covered her head when meeting the Pope. Go look at history and you will see that women of the past wore protective clothing with the hijab. While you people took it off... the muslims are carrying it on.. It is a symbol of modesty. While the hijab is prescribed to the believing women. The burqa is by choice.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

I watched the whole video. But what Jesus myths is it actually 'debunking'? You mean things like "He was born in Bethlehem", "Three Magi came from the East", "He rose from the dead after three days", "He was crucified".

I mean, the point where I just went - "Nah, okay: wait.... what?" - was when it gave the 'astrological explanation' about crucifixion at 3:20-odd. I'm not sure we can give an astrological explanation, because it actually happened - I think most of us can agree that it's an historical event, I think that it is an historical event. iirc, Muslims don't believe it happened but... who knows.

So I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take back from that - is it, "These Jesus myths are all wrong because there's a perfectly logical astrological/astronomical explanation for all of it"?

And Ramsses II won the battle of Kadesh because its written on the side of the temple of Luxor right?

 

[sweet_16]

And what about Mary, the mother of Jesus. Is she not portrayed with her head covered. Is she not a symbol of modesty. Then i don't see why muslim women are subjected to harsh treatment. One such case is...Germany forbids Muslim schoolteachers from wearing headscarves because they are not in line with “Western” values. Roman Catholic nuns, however, can wear their head coverings in school. Does it make any sense..?

 

[Shadowdude]

And Ramsses II won the battle of Kadesh because its written on the side of the temple of Luxor right?

Okay so that's written on the side of the temple of Luxor, whatever that is. Doesn't really matter what it is. Question now is: "Can I find a historical document written by a reputable historian I know and trust (and preferably was there at the scene) to confirm whether this is true or not?"

 

[AgentGreeny]

Or, you can look at non-Biblical historical accounts and go "Okay, this reputable historian said 'x' happened. The Bible said 'x' happened, so we can assume the Bible is correct historically in the regard of whether 'x' happened or not".

I know for a fact that my Chemistry teacher at school basis his Christian faith partially on the historical accuracy of the Bible. Now I myself haven't roamed historical documents and did that sort of thing at all - but that's what he said one lesson. But that's partially why he believes in what he believes in.

Plus, you can't disprove the Bible - of course. You can't completely disprove any religious text. You can however, call into serious question or even fully disprove, parts of it. For example, if a religious text said "In the year 2000 AD, we will all have flying cars" - you can be pretty sure that part is completely wrong.

Scientology says the universe was created 15 trillion years ago by the emperor Xenu.
OT says the universe was created around 6-10000 years ago by Yahweh.

Science says the universe originated 14.75 billion years ago and for now there's no present reason to think anyone created it. I'm pretty sure that's why we don't trust old books that don't take into account new evidence, science improves but fundamentalism, by definition, doesn't.

And just because the bible is right somewhere doesn't mean it's right elsewhere, whether 10% or 80% of it is accurate, you don't get to say that it's appropriate evidence for supernatural claims. There's really a train station called King's Cross, but that doesn't mean there's a Hogwarts Express at Chapter 9 3/4.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Scientology says the universe was created 15 trillion years ago by the emperor Xenu.
OT says the universe was created around 6-10000 years ago by Yahweh.

Science says the universe originated 14.75 billion years ago and for now there's no present reason to think anyone created it. I'm pretty sure that's why we don't trust old books that don't take into account new evidence, science improves but fundamentalism, by definition, doesn't.

And just because the bible is right somewhere doesn't mean it's right elsewhere, whether 10% or 80% of it is accurate, you don't get to say that it's appropriate evidence for supernatural claims. There's really a train station called King's Cross, but that doesn't mean there's a Hogwarts Express at platform 9 3/4.

Blasphemy

 

[cosmo kramer]

hogwarts express is real you cunts

 

[Shadowdude]

Scientology says the universe was created 15 trillion years ago by the emperor Xenu.
OT says the universe was created around 6-10000 years ago by Yahweh.

Science says the universe originated 14.75 billion years ago and for now there's no present reason to think anyone created it. I'm pretty sure that's why we don't trust old books that don't take into account new evidence, science improves but fundamentalism, by definition, doesn't.

And just because the bible is right somewhere doesn't mean it's right elsewhere, whether 10% or 80% of it is accurate, you don't get to say that it's appropriate evidence for supernatural claims. There's really a train station called King's Cross, but that doesn't mean there's a Hogwarts Express at Chapter 9 3/4.

I highly doubt the Old Testament says the universe was created 6 to 10 thousand years ago. Very much doubt that. Verse?

And yes, I agree about parts of a religious text being right. As I said before - we would compare historical claims and then if they coincide, we could conclude that it is most likely that the religious text is right about the historical occurrence of that particular event. Though, I would think that if someone could get a reputable historian's account that says that Jesus did die on the cross and then four days later saw him walking around... well, I'd think that would pretty much confirm Christianity as a... religion that is very reputable, at the very least.

 

[Azure]

http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?t=257055

If you want to discuss the existence of God

 

[Cianyx]

I highly doubt the Old Testament says the universe was created 6 to 10 thousand years ago. Very much doubt that. Verse?

Some dude got bored and traced the lineage back to Adam and Eve or something like that

 

[qawe]

I highly doubt the Old Testament says the universe was created 6 to 10 thousand years ago. Very much doubt that. Verse?

And yes, I agree about parts of a religious text being right. As I said before - we would compare historical claims and then if they coincide, we could conclude that it is most likely that the religious text is right about the historical occurrence of that particular event. Though, I would think that if someone could get a reputable historian's account that says that Jesus did die on the cross and then four days later saw him walking around... well, I'd think that would pretty much confirm Christianity as a... religion that is very reputable, at the very least.

some ppl interpret it this way, while others (myself) only place this timeline on humans' existence

 

[Shadowdude]

Some dude got bored and traced the lineage back to Adam and Eve or something like that

Isn't that in the Bible, like "he was the son of this person, who was the son of this person, who was the son of this person..."

 

[qawe]

Did you people forget that Christianity also prescribes the observance of headscarves, which is why First Lady Michelle Obama covered her head when meeting the Pope. Go look at history and you will see that women of the past wore protective clothing with the hijab. While you people took it off... the muslims are carrying it on.. It is a symbol of modesty. While the hijab is prescribed to the believing women. The burqa is by choice.

only in the Mass (and the head only - just for emphasis)

 

[qawe]

Okay so that's written on the side of the temple of Luxor, whatever that is. Doesn't really matter what it is. Question now is: "Can I find a historical document written by a reputable historian I know and trust (and preferably was there at the scene) to confirm whether this is true or not?"

exactly. multiple attestation.

 

[qawe]

Isn't that in the Bible, like "he was the son of this person, who was the son of this person, who was the son of this person..."

yes. that's why you can trace when humans were created.

 

[qawe]

does anyone really need to debate this issue?

i mean, on a basic level, it's essentially sexist dribble from the age of un-enlightenment stating that women need to cover themselves up from the prying eyes of men.

then you come to this stupid point of;

'well i CHOOSE to wear the burqa because it is my religious tradition, i am not forced to'

well this argument is even worse. when you are raised from birth with a particular ideal/religion force fed to you and being convinced that straying from such a path will lead to eternal damnation, of course your whole conscious and ability to think are clouded by this. you, arguably, most likely will not believe that wearing cloth everywhere but your eyes is the right thing to do, but your corrupted reason thanks to religion has completely shattered your logic and hence - burqa is okay.

also social stigma. and if u leave the faith u can be disowned by ur family and killed

 

[qawe]

Well, I think we should get qawe - BOS' resident Christian - to figure out what that means in the grand context of things.

EDIT: But uhh, I don't think there's a purgatory mentioned in the Bible anyways.

there's no purgatory explicitly mentioned (i think there are vague allusions to it in 2 Maccabees or something)

Christians are not required to observe the Sabbath, simple as that

Christ fulfilled the Law, so it is no longer to be observed except for what is listed in a verse in Acts, I'm not bothered to get now (quoted many times already now)