What is investment banking? (3 Viewers)

[lyounamu]

A grad joining a Big 4 firm would probably be only on about 200k (60k + 60k + 80k) total over those 3 years assuming they joined as a graduate and got promoted to senior. Obviously the difference is if they were a high performing trainee in which case they would be joining at a higher level and it'd be closer to $285k (80k + 95k + 110k). So yeh, IB definitely pays a lot better but then it also comes down to what you enjoy doing and whether you appreciate the environment you're working in.

Whatt.... the diff between non-cadet graduate and cadet graduate is 85k over 3 years???????? :O

omgggg

 

[seremify007]

Whatt.... the diff between non-cadet graduate and cadet graduate is 85k over 3 years???????? :O

omgggg

That doesn't take into account earnings as a trainee (approx $60-70k depending on firm) but keep in mind the returning trainee/cadet has at least 2 years professional experience (which is actually quite useful and relevant when it comes to both clients and meeting post-grad qualification requirements). Big4 accounting doesn't pay the best compared to the highest paid option you could have taken, but you won't be living poorly if you get what I mean.

Then there's also exit salaries to consider.

 

[lyounamu]

That doesn't take into account earnings as a trainee (approx $60-70k depending on firm) but keep in mind the returning trainee/cadet has at least 2 years professional experience (which is actually quite useful and relevant when it comes to both clients and meeting post-grad qualification requirements). Big4 accounting doesn't pay the best compared to the highest paid option you could have taken, but you won't be living poorly if you get what I mean.

Then there's also exit salaries to consider.

But that's not to say that their salary would be 85K...Never heard of any friend who got 85K pay check as a grad (cadet grad). I would have thought it would be just few K higher.

I get your point though. 2 years of work experience is huge.

 

[seremify007]

But that's not to say that their salary would be 85K...Never heard of any friend who got 85K pay check as a grad (cadet grad). I would have thought it would be just few K higher.

Once you include bonuses and the fact that you can get promoted to senior accountant/associate a lot faster (i.e. within 6 months) it does make a difference.

 

[Daniel_95]

No it's not.

But that only happens one or two weeks in the year for me. The rest is a lot closer to 50-70ish.

ps. Just to clarify: I'm person 2.
pps. If you don't recognise what form that is, you're too young to be committing to a life of investment banking lol. Go enjoy life!

i'm seriously considering investment banking or accounting as my career. Does an investment banker such as an analyst or associate really work 80-100 hr weeks every week or is it just once or twice a year? i have been researching and every website is saying it is these stupid 80-100hr weeks throughout the year with little holidays. I would like some real life answers because i am hoping it is once once or twice a year like what seremifty007 said above.

All so, how does accounting hours compare to investment banking? any answers would be great.

Thanks,

Daniel

 

[seremify007]

i'm seriously considering investment banking or accounting as my career. Does an investment banker such as an analyst or associate really work 80-100 hr weeks every week or is it just once or twice a year? i have been researching and every website is saying it is these stupid 80-100hr weeks throughout the year with little holidays. I would like some real life answers because i am hoping it is once once or twice a year like what seremifty007 said above.

All so, how does accounting hours compare to investment banking? any answers would be great.

Thanks,

Daniel

Hi Daniel, I can't speak for IB as I only know from my friends who may not necessarily be reflective of the entire population, but I know that I probably work a bit longer/harder than the norm in my field of accounting (financial services auditing). The 99+ hours per above is really a once a week thing with the rest of the year averaging closer to the 60-70 mark depending on business needs.

 

[gwenwiver]

Is this really a good place to be as we move into a world financial crisis'

 

[Omnipotence]

Here's a summary of this thread.

 

[Subhas Bose]

its basicallly just glorified admin/spreadsheet work

 

[Omnidragon]

HAHAHAHA Omnipotence - that video is so funny.

A mansion and a plane by 30 by being a banker? Gee some people are deluded.

Try "By 30 I will have the 50% deposit for the crappy Chatswood (NSW)/Richmond (Vic) $1.5m townhouse and can work another 4 years to pay it off"

Woohoo! Pathway to financial disaster!

 

[Omnipotence]

Sorry to bump this thread but I'm curious to know if instituitional banking is the same as IB.

 

[Omnidragon]

Insto banking is typically a much broader division in a bank, and can sometimes encompass investment banking. Sometimes they're separate - it's all about power play in an organisation that's all. Does the ib head of a particular division want to have the report through the insto head and can he resist it (ie make enough money) that he doesn't need to if push came to shove? Don't take the labelling too seriously.

 

[Omnipotence]

Okay thanks.

 

[gwenwiver]

The predicted "White Collar" recession may make a difference. Here are today's articles. Given that 9 countries in Europe were downgraded including France this is obviously to be expected

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2011/11/macquarie-sees-white-collar-recession/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-14/finance-sector-woes-raise-recession-fears/3772712/?site=sydney

http://www.smh.com.au/business/bank-on-whitecollar-crisis-20120113-1pzhx.html

and if we follow the US trends as we usually do there is this:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/hig...qual-than-others/story-e6frgcjx-1226240893899

 

[DaltonF]

A bit more of an 'abstract' take on the thread topic, and a little thing I mull over sometimes, is how we assume Investment Banking, and more widely the Finance industry as a value-creator. Obviously my thoughts aren't knew, as they have been echoed by Carl Fox in Wall Street "Stop going for the easy buck and start producing something with your life. Create, instead of living off the buying and selling of others." But what I mean is, Investment Banking is a 'Utility' and should be treated like one.

I mean Utility in the economic sense. for those that don't follow, like electricity etc. If we look at the industry, we see a strong innate oligopoly destined to be formed, as through amassing capital is the name of the game, barriers to entry cost a lot, and unless you have connections, if you try and start up a boutique, simply no-one would use you. Other evidence I interpret to support this is the whole GFC debaucle, comparative to the 'fun' times had by Enron employees when they were given free-range on control of California's power grid (resulting in the creation of artificial shortages).

So with that in mind, I tie it to the ACTUAL thread, to work for a Utility that is branded and treated as a value-creating industry, means;

A) You'll be in the corporate environment, which translates to a situation where to progress, you've got to knock the guy employing you off their perch.
B) You'll be performing actions that do not equate to anything of substantial merit. AKA the 120 hours weekly of Grunt Work. This is an issue when your only motivation is money.
C) Due to the repetitive, extensive and high-pressure (Try lasting when you get models wrong) nature of your work, you'll undergo a psychological abuse, which will then affect your cognitive and behavioural states, turning you into someone you may not likely want to be.
D) Due to the extensive amount of time you spend in this line of work, you'll develop skills and taste for little else, you will have no 'lifestyle'.
E) Finally, a more existentialist concern (which could be said for other occupations as well), your 'work' amounts to nothing, you won't be making a difference, if you quit, you will be replaced by someone just as hungry, you'll have no stories to tell your children (if you ever have any), you'll become isolated from others outside the industry as well, no one wants to hear about how your excel model predicted an IRR of 357%. Compare this to other highly paid occupations, say a doctor, people want to hear how you diagnosed and treated someone, saving their life, or a small anecdote about patients. Take television as the prime indicator, there is no Investment Banking dramas. So living with the fact that what you currently do will mean nothing may also get you down.


I truly believe that Investment Banking is far too glamorised, not the traditional way of 'it's amazing', but in the sly way, able to scoop up the top performers 'It's Amazing, but you have to be the best to get in'. The in-built exclusivity of the industry innately attracts people, and transforms the ACTUAL issues of the industry for employees, as 'challenges' that must be overcome.

 

[Newbie]

fml - we just lost 25% headcount last week.
all banks in hong kong doing the same soon. I can only imagine Australia will follow suit
its truly fucked up out there thanks to Europe

Good luck to you kids interviewing next year - going to be tough times.

 

[Newbie]

Oh also want to give you guys some pointers on interviews

- please doublecheck your spelling in EVERYTHING, cover letters, resumes, your application form, email correspondence. any spelling mistakes gets you knocked out.
- study up on the technical questions, its not hard, they are all over the internet, its the same questions every year. even if you dont know what it actually is, just recite the answer
- read up the financial newspapers 3-4 weeks ahead of your interviews, pretend you care about whats happening at least

despite the world ending as we know it, application volumes are still extremely high so the little things can make all the difference between a yes and a no
as a reference, i think we got about 5,000 applications, 1000 went through and landed on our desks, 200 were given phone interviews, 40 were given second interviews and we will hire about 15

 

[gwenwiver]

fml - we just lost 25% headcount last week.
all banks in hong kong doing the same soon. I can only imagine Australia will follow suit
its truly fucked up out there thanks to Europe

Good luck to you kids interviewing next year - going to be tough times.

Do you believe the new school leavers are aware that they are facing a far worse future with few jobs then ever before?

Looking at your statistics above(in #57) it appears that the message is not getting through. Wonder if the 5085 unsuccessful applicants for places at your firm finally found a job in the industry? Do you believe that the 25% who lost their jobs at your firm last week will find a job easily?

 

[Omnidragon]

Jobs have never been easy to find in HK, let alone good jobs and let alone in a down market.

Reality is life goes on, people will still get hired, people will still get a job somewhere. Getting in or missing out on something "high-powered" (whatever that means) like investment banking is not the end of life. One of my closest friends who missed out on a job in my grad year is now running his own hedge fund, calling his own shots, investing $m that most banking directors could only dream about. And he's 26.

 

[sauce2k]

where no life and huge bucks exists