Illegal Immigrants (3 Viewers)

[Belalan]

@Stillthinkin
Firstly the declaration is not legally binding, despite the UN's claims to the contrary

Articles 3 and 9 are already violated by the prison system and suicide prevention schemes, thus I see no further point following that.

Article 7; there was a case a few months ago where a group of people attempted to protest that Australian courts did not consider Islamic law in their proceedings; I will assume that it was an extremist group and was a media hype to boot; I have yet to see evidence of persecution of these individuals in Afghanistan in a court of law; but if you could provide some evidence I will quite happily agree on this point.

Article 14
Another classic example of UN optimism; see also their Millenium Goals. Were it to be held true then part 2 still needs to be investigated; see also the difficulties of transferring records due to a change of name.

Articles 22 and 28
If you are accusing Australia of breaking this article; I would point you towards Asia, Africa or South America who, in general are far worse offenders than us.

With regards to the status of these detention centers; I would like free internet too please, along with free lodgings and food; prehaps you would prefer the Russian's immigration detention method? Also; if these people have lived through such hellish conditions surely the reliable income of such basic commodities would be a relief, or are they that greedy to demand more than large numbers of the world's population who do not get such free food accomedation and internet.

 

[stillthinkin]

well see

open borders is a policy supported by
1) one world liberals
3) people with downs syndrome (never unoverlapping categories)

people with downs syndrome will only vote for other people with downs syndrome (downs syndrome nepotism)

so

1) only people with downs syndrome will support open borders
2) people with downs syndrome will only support people with downs syndrome
3) an elected governing body that advocates open borders could therefore only consist of people with downs syndrome

there's my logic

You are one rude little man, theres my logic

 

[stillthinkin]

@Belalan

Have you ever been in a detention centre buddy, because I have and it's not all hunky dory

 

[Belalan]

Open boarders is just another way of saying One World Order. I cant say that I particularly like the sound of that.

@stillthinkin
Prehaps you could relate the reasons as to why you would be in a detention centre? And you still have not countered my point that if these people have endured such "hardship" (Inverted commas due to lack of information about what hardships we are discussing, not due to sarcasm) then why wouldnt such a detention centre actually be an improvement of conditions for them?

 

[antonio primo]

should have kept you in there cunt

 

[stillthinkin]

should have kept you in there cunt

Lucky they didn't or I wouldn't have the pleasure of having such intellectually stimulating conversation with wonderful people such as yourself

 

[antonio primo]

well im glad you can concede there's nobody but dumbarses in detention centres

 

[Belalan]

@Antonio; manners please, swearing at someone is the lowest form of discourse and implies that you completely lack the intelligence to perpetuate a sustained argument.

Grow up.

@Stillthinkin; thank you for providing points and perpetuating said discourse I am enjoying the interplay of information.

 

[stillthinkin]

Open boarders is just another way of saying One World Order. I cant say that I particularly like the sound of that.

@stillthinkin
Prehaps you could relate the reasons as to why you would be in a detention centre? And you still have not countered my point that if these people have endured such "hardship" (Inverted commas due to lack of information about what hardships we are discussing, not due to sarcasm) then why wouldnt such a detention centre actually be an improvement of conditions for them?

If you don't mind me asking, have you visited a detention centre, been inside one. What about a jail or a prison. Where exactly are you from? Because some things are not as black and white as paper and policy. I am no danger to society and neither are the majority of the other refugees and asylum seekers, that's the reason why refugees are kept inside detention centres, because of the xenophobic nature of Australian society which is ironically supposed to have a "multicultural" outlook on policy.

 

[stillthinkin]

well im glad you can concede there's nobody but dumbarses in detention centres

That's a nice change, swearing will you get you no where in life, now go and be a good little boy and let the adults discuss

 

[Lentern]

but cant you also have a government that would have a legit open borders policy

Well yeah, you know me that's obviously what I am advocating I was just being facetious.

 

[Lentern]

Open boarders is just another way of saying One World Order. I cant say that I particularly like the sound of that.

Ahh, so you're a racist.

 

[Belalan]

@stillthinkin
I do not consider you a danger to society; nor are the majority of refugees in all probability. However when the case comes to "Assylum Seekers" who are deliberately obfuscating their past history one does ask oneself what they are hiding. About my nationality as I stated earlier, I attend James Ruse, so that is likely more than enough information to allow you to make an informed deduction; I am not a stranger to being a racial minority. On that note it is not just the Xenophobic nature of "white" Australian society, but more the nature of all societies to resist change. On the topic of "multiculturalism" it was earlier this year acknowledged in Europe that said policy was a failure as it had only encouraged what can be best described as reasonably insular sects of various nationalities to develop, a phenomenon I have seen firsthand in both Australia and overseas; I am curious as to why we are still clinging to such a policy.

@Lentern
No, in order to police an open boarders policy one would require an internationally based organisation that would track the movements of individuals.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[funkshen]

that was literally the worst use of Quis custodiet ipsos custodes I have ever witnessed

 

[stillthinkin]

@stillthinkin
I do not consider you a danger to society; nor are the majority of refugees in all probability. However when the case comes to "Assylum Seekers" who are deliberately obfuscating their past history one does ask oneself what they are hiding. About my nationality as I stated earlier, I attend James Ruse, so that is likely more than enough information to allow you to make an informed deduction; I am not a stranger to being a racial minority. On that note it is not just the Xenophobic nature of "white" Australian society, but more the nature of all societies to resist change. On the topic of "multiculturalism" it was earlier this year acknowledged in Europe that said policy was a failure as it had only encouraged what can be best described as reasonably insular sects of various nationalities to develop, a phenomenon I have seen firsthand in both Australia and overseas; I am curious as to why we are still clinging to such a policy.

@Lentern
No, in order to police an open boarders policy one would require an internationally based organisation that would track the movements of individuals.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I agree that there are people who do provide false information about their past, which is why there needs to be a major overhaul of the immigration policy that Australia has at the moment. Just to give you an idea, offshore processing is more expensive and costly, the money that is being poured into places like Christmas island and naru can be instead placed into provide more people to actually investigate and ensure that the people who are allowed into this country have entered on legitimate reasons, so I can agree with you there. But there is only a small minority of people who do falsify their information, the majority of the other asylum seekers (asylum with one s by the way) are here for the right reasons. They arrive by plane and only those who are extremely desperate seek other methods such as boats to get here. If they are willing to sacrifice their lives in boats to escape the turmoil of their home countries isn't that more then enough reason to empathise with them and allow them to seek refuge in a prosperous country such as Australia where people such as myself thrive.

I can agree with some of your statement but please do not judge the majority on the actions of a few.

 

[Belalan]

@ funkshen
I was testing to see whether little Lentern was a troll; if they were they wouldn't have bothered translating it. But the statement applies to any organisation with power over people.

@stillthinkin
As I have said throughout I do not expect the majority of immigrants or refugees to lie about their past etc;

However that still does not explain how all these people arrive sans passports, I would also like figures as to how much such immigrants contribute to the Australian economy as opposed to the possibility of them simply utilising the welfare and medicare schemes; having seen their effect upon the Gare du Nord in Paris or the problems in Marseille I would hate to see the same thing occuring in Australia.

On the note of medicare, if you ever get the time and are in the area I would advise paying a visit to the Children's hospital and comparing the percentage population ratios of those waiting there to the effective population of the country.

I am sorry for my use of two s'es in asylum, I had kept it to one 's' in previous posts and as such it was an accidental typo.

 

[Lentern]

@Lentern
No, in order to police an open boarders policy one would require an internationally based organisation that would track the movements of individuals.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Well sure, if you believe in totalitarian regimes.

 

[Belalan]

@Lentern

Your proposal is simply an anarchistic society then? Assuming it is; how long before someone wants to become their own little warlord?

 

[stillthinkin]

@ funkshen
I was testing to see wheter little Lentern was a troll; if they were they wouldn't have bothered translating it. But the statement applies to any organisation with power over people.

@stillthinkin
As I have said throughout I do not expect the majority of immigrants or refugees to lie about their past etc;

However that still does not explain how all these people arrive sans passports, I would also like figures as to how much such immigrants contribute to the Australian economy as opposed to the possibility of them simply effecting the welfare and medicare schemes; having seen their effect upon the Gare du Nord in Paris or the problems in Marsailles I would hate to see the same thing occuring in Australia.

On the note of medicare, if you ever get the time and are in the area I would advise paying a visit to the Children's hospital and comparing the percentage population ratios of those waiting there to the effective population of the country.

I am sorry for my use of two s'es in asylum, I had kept it to one 's' in previous posts and as such it was an accidental typo.

The reason that a lot of them arrive without passports may be due to the fact that there is not effective processing in the areas that they live. I'm not sure about you but the majority of the people who I know that are immigrants have jobs such as doctors, nurses, teachers and police officers. My father is a doctor here and my mother is a nurse, all of my sisters work, as do I and we all pay tax. I can't say the same for everyone else because I have not gone door knocking to the house of each immigrant to see if they are dole bludgers, but if you have the time, go for gold.

You should be thankful that medicare exists in Australia as well as a lot of the other means of welfare. Look at America and the hell hole that their medical facilities are in. You get sick in America and don't have insurance ---> you die. Provided that Australia does not have the best welfare systems in the world, but trust they are supporting more then immigrants my friend.

Everyone makes mistakes, we are all only human after all. I was only kidding previously when I pointed it out (a touch of humour to dissipate the tension of this overall conversation)

 

[Lentern]

@Lentern

Your proposal is simply an anarchistic society then? Assuming it is; how long before someone wants to become their own little warlord?

No it wouldn't be anarchy, once they were within the jurisdiction of the commonwealth they'd have to abide its laws, vote, pay taxes etc.