Question about different schools doing Trials. (1 Viewer)

[MrBrightside]

You know how most schools do trials now, and some do them in week 5. Are the ones in week 5 a different company such as the independent? Because if they are CSSA, then other schools can cheat, and it is really unfair.

 

[isenseven]

They could cheat all they want. But, in the end their marks will get moderated proportionally to their external marks and they wont have the same luxury of cheating in the HSC so it will be more of a hinderance than a benefit....

 

[MrBrightside]

They could cheat all they want. But, in the end their marks will get moderated proportionally to their external marks and they wont have the same luxury of cheating in the HSC so it will be more of a hinderance than a benefit....

yeah but say they get a higher internal mark at school A (cheats), and School B gets lower marks. wouldn't school As externals get scaled up because they performed better in internals, and thus seen as 'smarter students'?

 

[isenseven]

No.
1. Your externals do not get scaled up because you went better in internals :/ I don't where you heard that from but ....
2. Your internal mark is moderated as a proportion of how well you do in the external marks. Using your example, say school A sent away 3 student marks 98 99 100, while school B sent away the marks 70 71 72. In the externals School A's students got 80 81 82 while School B got 90 91 92 their internals would end up being the same/similar due to the BOS process. This is the main purpose of HSC moderating using your performance in the externals to measure your internal to precisely stop cheating.
3. Finally, so now that is all established, it doesn't mean fuck all if a school cheats in internals (which none do) due to moderating. The only way there is a possibility of cheating is through a student at one school getting the exam before hand (while the other students don't) and acing it then adversely affecting ranks which would only benefit him/her in the internal mark maybe.

Comprehendaii?

 

[aphorae]

lol they wouldn't use the same ones... and a lot of schools make up their own papers...

 

[cem]

2. Your internal mark is moderated as a proportion of how well you do in the external marks. Using your example, say school A sent away 3 student marks 98 99 100, while school B sent away the marks 70 71 72. In the externals School A's students got 80 81 82 while School B got 90 91 92 their internals would end up being the same/similar due to the BOS process. This is the main purpose of HSC moderating using your performance in the externals to measure your internal to precisely stop cheating.

In your example School A's final marks would be 80 81 and 82 as the moderation process uses the top exam mark as the top assessment (internal) mark to the student who went in with 100 would get 82 for their internal as that was the highest exam mark from the school and the student with 98 would drop to 80 as that was the lowest exam mark.

School B would end up with the better marks due to the internal marks again being moderated to the external marks.

It isn't an average of the marks the school sends in - that mark is only used to determine ranks and gaps but isn't used at all. It is the exam mark that is used as the exam mark and to moderate the internal marks.

 

[hul0]

In your example School A's final marks would be 80 81 and 82 as the moderation process uses the top exam mark as the top assessment (internal) mark to the student who went in with 100 would get 82 for their internal as that was the highest exam mark from the school and the student with 98 would drop to 80 as that was the lowest exam mark.

School B would end up with the better marks due to the internal marks again being moderated to the external marks.
It isn't an average of the marks the school sends in - that mark is only used to determine ranks and gaps but isn't used at all. It is the exam mark that is used as the exam mark and to moderate the internal marks.

so say a person has been coming first for all their internals and in the external they come first as well in their school e.g. with a mark of 96, does that mean their internal will be effectively a 96 and so their final HSC mark a 96 as well?

 

[isenseven]

In your example School A's final marks would be 80 81 and 82 as the moderation process uses the top exam mark as the top assessment (internal) mark to the student who went in with 100 would get 82 for their internal as that was the highest exam mark from the school and the student with 98 would drop to 80 as that was the lowest exam mark.

School B would end up with the better marks due to the internal marks again being moderated to the external marks.

It isn't an average of the marks the school sends in - that mark is only used to determine ranks and gaps but isn't used at all. It is the exam mark that is used as the exam mark and to moderate the internal marks.

I know that, i'm just trying to paint a picture without being to padantic. And as for you saying it's of the highest external mark... That's wrong. Alot more complicated than that.

 

[jamesfirst]

you know that teachers have the right to change the trials questions right ??


so even if someone cheats, it doesn't really affect anything.

 

[cem]

I know that, i'm just trying to paint a picture without being to padantic. And as for you saying it's of the highest external mark... That's wrong. Alot more complicated than that.

It's not.

The top exam mark earned by your cohort will be the top internal mark awarded to your school cohort and the bottom exam mark will be the bottom internal mark awarded to your school cohort. The exams are what are used to set the top and bottom marks and the total marks earned by the school cohort in the exam will also match the total marks available for the internals.

Top exam mark = 98 therefore top internal mark will also be 98.

Bottom exam mark = 60 therefore bottom internal mark will be 60.

Then the total marks are added up - say 1187 - then there are 1187 marks for the cohort for internals (give or take a mark) based on ranks and gaps.

Your example was wrong as you didn't link the internal moderated marks to the exams and they are very much linked. They have to be as the HSC is the only common task so it is the only task that can be used to moderate the state and the schools across the state.

If School A sends in 98, 99 and 100 and School B sends in 60, 61 and 62 but both schools exam marks are 89, 90, 91 guess what - both schools end up with the same marks as it shows School A marked too easy and School B marked too hard but the exam results say that the cohorts are of equal ability.

There are the odd exceptions such as when the top internal student totally stuffs up their exam and say is sent in with 95, with second at 93 but the 95 student gets 40 on the exam then that mark would be removed from the moderation process as it is an anomoly and would skew that school's internal results (the student who earnt 40 in the exam would still keep that mark as their exam mark but it wouldn't impact the rest of the class's moderated school assessment marks). This happens for any odd result that doens't fit with the general construction of the class that is sent in.

The other exception would be if two or more students are sent in with equal first because then they average the top 2/3 marks depending on how many were ranked equal first e.g. two equal firsts sent in - one gets 98 in the exam and the second exam mark is 88 - the two equal firsts get the average of 98+88=93 as their internal.

 

[cem]

so say a person has been coming first for all their internals and in the external they come first as well in their school e.g. with a mark of 96, does that mean their internal will be effectively a 96 and so their final HSC mark a 96 as well?

That is exactly what it means which is why there is so much emphasis on coming first. They will get their own exam mark and the top exam mark as their internal mark - so if they went in 1st but came 2nd on the exam they keep their second ranked mark for their exam and they get the top exam mark for the internal mark.

 

[S_A_M_U_t]

You know how most schools do trials now, and some do them in week 5. Are the ones in week 5 a different company such as the independent? Because if they are CSSA, then other schools can cheat, and it is really unfair.

The CSSA exams have specific dates in which they are to be taken.... Schools are not allowed to alter the timetable because of the possibility of cheating. Every school doing the CSSA exams have to do it on the days allocated for each subject.

Peace.

 

[cem]

The CSSA exams have specific dates in which they are to be taken.... Schools are not allowed to alter the timetable because of the possibility of cheating. Every school doing the CSSA exams have to do it on the days allocated for each subject.

Peace.

Not quite.

A school who is doing the CSSA trials can't do the trial any earlier than that stated on the timetable but they can use the paper and do their trial later - so for instance a school could decide to use the CSSA English trials next week if they want to do so but they couldn't have done them last week. Why anyone would want to use them later I don't know but I do know that it does happen - and for one simple reason - the CSSA timetable often has two or more exams scheduled at the same time but that mightn't be possible at a some schools - they may have those subjects different lines and have students doing both subjects (we have that with two exams this year - I think one was Economics but I am not sure - meaning that the subject that was moved from that slot has the choice to use that exam later or used a different paper or write their own.

 

[pinkcupcakes]

The CSSA exams have specific dates in which they are to be taken.... Schools are not allowed to alter the timetable because of the possibility of cheating. Every school doing the CSSA exams have to do it on the days allocated for each subject.

Peace.

this.
all catholic schools have the same timetable

 

[laura_a]

when you do the CSSA trial, there is a security period, so your school can't actually give you the paper until that security period has elapsed. So for school's liek Reddam who sit their Trials in Week 7, they're not allowed to use CSSA papers because it's outside that time block.

 

[cem]

when you do the CSSA trial, there is a security period, so your school can't actually give you the paper until that security period has elapsed. So for school's liek Reddam who sit their Trials in Week 7, they're not allowed to use CSSA papers because it's outside that time block.

The security period for some exams has already elapsed of course.

If a school wants to use the CSSA papers AFTER the set date they are free to do so but they also would know that their students might have access to these papers so Reddam can use the CSSA papers but I would doubt that they would do so as some students might have a copy of the paper while another won't.