school ranking? (1 Viewer)

[MrBrightside]

why does school ranking matter? who cares if it's in the 500s or 300s, 100s etc, doesn't it all matter on how much effort you put in and get YOUR own marks to get your OWN ATAR rank. int + ext / 2

 

[slyhunter]

Yes, doing well tend to negate the bad effects on a poorly ranked school. But there is a level of importance (i.e. Doing exceptionally well in a 500th ranked school may only equate to being average in a top 10).

 

[MrBrightside]

is it because if a school is low ranked, people see that most students are doing poorly, thus the teachers are of poor teaching quality.

 

[slyhunter]

That's a plausible idea though not necessarily true. There are a lot of dedicated high quality teachers who teach in such low ranked schools because they enjoy the satisfaction they get from helping lesser able students.

Seriously though, to achieve a good ATAR is a poorly ranked school, chances are you'll have to be top-notch in all your subs and rank at the peak of the cohort. In a top 10 school say, performing average and staying at least in the middle of rankings may already guarantee you a good ATAR.

 

[OmmU]

This question has been in my mind as well MrBrightside. I am from a poorly ranked school, but am always in the top 2 or 3 out of 150. Looking on the UAC website they say in a brochure about the ATAR that rank doesn't play a part in your ATAR.

They class the statement "The School/Postcode matters" (meaning where you go to school will affect your ATAR) as an 'Urban Myth'. Although this is interesting as some members make estimations on ATAR's based on school and individual rank. Maybe someone with more experience could explain how this is done?

Urban Myth statement from here: http://www.uac.edu.au/documents/schoolink/All-about-the-ATAR.ppt

 

[slyhunter]

Rank doesn't DIRECTLY play a part in ATAR calculation; it simply helps to determine how well you will need to go to attain whatever ATAR you want. This is based on the fact that your internal assessment mark is calculated upon your internal rank and the corresponding exam mark (e.g. if you are ranked 50/100 internally, your internal mark will be the 50th highest external mark). The UAC don't explain it particularly well since the point is, you're in a school and you may as well try your best and put maximum effort in which is the best advice.

As an ATAR estimator myself, school rank simply helps to determine how well a student's ranks are in their subjects.

Have a think about it. Would a rank of 20/100 in a top 10 school be equivalent to a rank of 20/100 in a 500th ranked school? No. Because chances are, it may not be difficult to attain a rank of 20 in the 500th school but extremely difficult to do the exact same thing in a top 10 school.

 

[jayy100]

Hmm, i think the only advantage of going to a highly ranked school would be:
i) the competitive environment
ii) the chances of getting a higher internal mark then you would have probably achieved

However, with that being said, anyone can do well despite whatever school they go to. I myself go to poorly ranked school but have some very passionate and dedicated teachers I use to always stress about my school's ranking, but i think it's just best to focus your efforts and time, on actually studying LOL

 

[MrBrightside]

Have a think about it. Would a rank of 20/100 in a top 10 school be equivalent to a rank of 20/100 in a 500th ranked school? No. Because chances are, it may not be difficult to attain a rank of 20 in the 500th school but extremely difficult to do the exact same thing in a top 10 school.

yes I was having a think about this. But then again you choose to go to a top 10 school, thus you have to be more competitive (the marks will obviously be much more closer together). IF you were at a low ranking school, yes it may be easier to attain the same rank, but then again your school isn't the best of the pack, less competition, thus you're really on your own to motivate yourself, (and you might be doing your own work, due to crap teachers).

 

[cem]

Rank doesn't DIRECTLY play a part in ATAR calculation; it simply helps to determine how well you will need to go to attain whatever ATAR you want. This is based on the fact that your internal assessment mark is calculated upon your internal rank and the corresponding exam mark (e.g. if you are ranked 50/100 internally, your internal mark will be the 50th highest external mark).

No - the marks are NOT directly awarded like this. The top and bottom exam marks are used as the top and bottom assessment marks (except in the case of ties in which case they are averaged). The total number of exam marks are calculated and that total number of marks will equate to the total number of assessment marks available (+ or - one depending on rounding). But the next step uses the school submitted gaps to determine what marks are given e.g. if the second student is 15 marks behind the top student according to the school but only 1 mark behind on the exam the assessment mark will reflect that school gap and the student's assessment mark won't be the same as their exam mark but will be closer to 15 marks less - of course they will keep their own exam mark.

The UAC don't explain it particularly well since the point is, you're in a school and you may as well try your best and put maximum effort in which is the best advice.

As an ATAR estimator myself, school rank simply helps to determine how well a student's ranks are in their subjects.

Have a think about it. Would a rank of 20/100 in a top 10 school be equivalent to a rank of 20/100 in a 500th ranked school? No. Because chances are, it may not be difficult to attain a rank of 20 in the 500th school but extremely difficult to do the exact same thing in a top 10 school.

Schools outside the top 50 or so can move massively in the space of a year so it is much harder to judge e.g. my school went from high 500s, in 2009 to low 300s this year 2010 a move of about 200 ranks and we, as teachers, would say that the 2009 cohort was actually more talented. 2009 had 27 Band 6s across the school while 2010 had 31 so the Band 6s are similar in total and close in the percentage of Band 6s compared to number of exams sat so why did they move so far? Who really knows but we moved up over 200 places and this year I would expect us to drop those 200 places and more (now watch this year's kids do better).

 

[lpodnano]

Hmm... but what if let's say you are the only one that tries hard and the rest of your cohort does terrible? Do you get dragged down with them?

 

[Absolutezero]

Hmm... but what if let's say you are the only one that tries hard and the rest of your cohort does terrible? Do you get dragged down with them?

Not if you beat them.

 

[lpodnano]

Not if you beat them.

Well, if you get a first ranking and your assessment mark is 95, but second is like 75 and below. What about that?

 

[MrBrightside]

yeah whats with that? Like teachers want us to use wikis now, thus all students benefit from each other... but doesn't that defeat the purpsoe of an ATAR? I can understand IF the schools ranks go up, then students are can more eaisly get higehr ATARs, but i don't see the logic. there will always be the high end students, the mid range, low range and the downright no effort at all students. thats just the way people are, few people actually put in a lot of effort, most people are average or lazy and the rest are just pathetic.

personally I still help my friends : ) (because i'm a nice guy).

 

[Shadowdude]

Well, if you get a first ranking and your assessment mark is 95, but second is like 75 and below. What about that?

They get punished. Not you.

You're first. You win. That's it. You get the highest result in your cohort as your own HSC moderated School Assessment Mark - whether it's yours, or someone elses.

 

[lpodnano]

They get punished. Not you.

You're first. You win. That's it. You get the highest result in your cohort as your own HSC moderated School Assessment Mark - whether it's yours, or someone elses.

Thanks I just keep getting these 'myths' from my cousins that I'll be dragged down with them and all that.

 

[Shadowdude]

Tell them to go back to school and learn how the system works. =P

 

[anairda]

what about going to a public/catholic/private school? i heard it makes a difference as private school are given more weight??

 

[ibbi00]

what about going to a public/catholic/private school? i heard it makes a difference as private school are given more weight??

No.

 

[maths94]

bos ranks school in terms of there external hsc marks, the purpose of this is to clarify rankings that the school has given bos......example a 500th rank school there number 1 student is probably ranked to the 10th best student in a 300th ranked school. l obviously do not know the full details but i presume it goes something like that .

 

[smartalec]

continuing from what ipodnano said, what happens if the same thing happend, but you came SECOND? E.G. 95, and second was say, 92 or 93 then it drops to 70ish ? mayeb you can answer this shadowdude?
how much roughly would it pull you down ?