Why so few anarchists? (2 Viewers)

[Lentern]

This isn't a sneer at how few of them they are thread, it's a legitimate question. Given in academic and intellectual circles the idea of incrementally getting rid of the state gets quite decent representation and that its promises are as beautiful as those of any ideology that includes a government? Why is it such a niche? An offbeat, alternative following? It's not like socialism where the disasters of Russia, China, Korea etc have scared people off and most people are for the large part quite resentful of politicians; embracing every tax cut and raising a cynical eyebrow every time spending increases. I emphasise this isn't anti-anarchist, this is curiosity, there are some hard-line groups (Family First/Fred Nile styled Christian Democrats for example) which I think are far worse than anarchists yet are much more popular, why (Sylvester, Steve, Rothbard) is "middle Australia" so disinterested?

 

[Arctopus]

Because people don't care and that's ok.

 

[loquasagacious]

This isn't a sneer at how few of them they are thread, it's a legitimate question. Given in academic and intellectual circles the idea of incrementally getting rid of the state gets quite decent representation and that its promises are as beautiful as those of any ideology that includes a government? Why is it such a niche? An offbeat, alternative following? It's not like socialism where the disasters of Russia, China, Korea etc have scared people off and most people are for the large part quite resentful of politicians; embracing every tax cut and raising a cynical eyebrow every time spending increases. I emphasise this isn't anti-anarchist, this is curiosity, there are some hard-line groups (Family First/Fred Nile styled Christian Democrats for example) which I think are far worse than anarchists yet are much more popular, why (Sylvester, Steve, Rothbard) is "middle Australia" so disinterested?

Good thread concept but I disagree that there is a significant academic impulse towards a reduced state, most academics are supported by the state and spend their time thinking of new ways for the govt to intervene.... Similarly I think that many people like increased govt spending...

 

[Ziva]

Most people think they the poor should not be "exploited" at the hands of the rich, although at the same time want to be rich themselves.

They want what is not possible.

Most people are dumb.

 

[TacoTerrorist]

Because Anarchism isn't even seen as a political theory in contemporary Australian life. People simply aren't exposed to the concept of a stateless society. The only politics people are exposed to is Labor vs Liberal and all the rhetoric supporting it. People don't see political change as important, they've been brainwashed their entire lives into a consumerist lifestyle. Especially with Anarchism, they just don't have a clear picture of what it is.

Apathy amongst the silent majority is the cancer that's killing the world.

EDIT: On a more personal note, it's interesting to wonder if people even deserve to live freely. If people just won't wake the fuck up and start thinking about things of importance they can go fuck themselves. But really? Is it their fault or the fault of the media that has kept them conformist and complacent? Who knows.

 

[Lentern]

Good thread concept but I disagree that there is a significant academic impulse towards a reduced state, most academics are supported by the state and spend their time thinking of new ways for the govt to intervene.... Similarly I think that many people like increased govt spending...

I think most academics certainly are,( to be crude and oversimplify), left leaning but compared to "middle Australia" anarchists (or massive reduction of state) are heavily overrepresented in the academic profession. And while most people like when money is specifically spent on themselves, they tend to be more vocally appreciative of the tax cut, at the very least its a close thing but the anarchist outside of students and academics seems virtually non existent.

 

[joker252]

because it doesnt work

 

[TacoTerrorist]

^ Untrue.

Anarchism in the Spanish Revolution of 1936 - Spanish Civil War

 

[badquinton304]

EDIT: On a more personal note, it's interesting to wonder if people even deserve to live freely. If people just won't wake the fuck up and start thinking about things of importance they can go fuck themselves. But really? Is it their fault or the fault of the media that has kept them conformist and complacent? Who knows.

People don't really want to have anything to do with political theory. Think about this example, some guy works 8-6 at a particular job its stressful, really drains you for the day, he comes home first priority is food, then of course the news he wants to know what happens around him, within his community, to his super fund, to his electricty and water bills. Then its got to do with the game he is going to watch tommorrow with his friends, its soemthing they all partake in. Then some tv to unwind, then sleep to recharge for the next day.
His priorities in this day were pretty obvious, food, earning a living, security and something to get his mind off all of these things. The only thing he wants to do with politics is where it concerns his most vital needs for the next week or so. So I don't think he is going to go into a library and go through Orwell, Marx etc.
He is mostly satisfied with his life so long as security, food etc are met. So he is not at fault of anything, he pursues what he wants, his success or failure is determined by himself, he has his own goals.
His life is more simple and he chooses to live it that way, he is not obliged to look at political theory, he would just prefer to live his life happily without worrying about these things.

 

[Lentern]

People don't really want to have anything to do with political theory. Think about this example, some guy works 8-6 at a particular job its stressful, really drains you for the day, he comes home first priority is food, then of course the news he wants to know what happens around him, within his community, to his super fund, to his electricty and water bills. Then its got to do with the game he is going to watch tommorrow with his friends, its soemthing they all partake in. Then some tv to unwind, then sleep to recharge for the next day.
His priorities in this day were pretty obvious, food, earning a living, security and something to get his mind off all of these things. The only thing he wants to do with politics is where it concerns his most vital needs for the next week or so. So I don't think he is going to go into a library and go through Orwell, Marx etc.
He is mostly satisfied with his life so long as security, food etc are met. So he is not at fault of anything, he pursues what he wants, his success or failure is determined by himself, he has his own goals.
His life is more simple and he chooses to live it that way, he is not obliged to look at political theory, he would just prefer to live his life happily without worrying about these things.

That's a rather elitist sentiment I think. I work in a warehouse in blacktown, about as blue collar as you could possibly get and many if not most of the people i've spoken to have a political-philosophical side to them, it's not as developed and refined you or I but they have these ideas about if mining was completely nationalized or if education was completely unregulated and all sorts of wonderful questions. These are the same people who have been moving boxes for a living since 1980.

 

[Optimus Prime]

ugh no wonder you want the government to steal from those who work hard and give it to you.

 

[badquinton304]

That's a rather elitist sentiment I think. I work in a warehouse in blacktown, about as blue collar as you could possibly get and many if not most of the people i've spoken to have a political-philosophical side to them, it's not as developed and refined you or I but they have these ideas about if mining was completely nationalized or if education was completely unregulated and all sorts of wonderful questions. These are the same people who have been moving boxes for a living since 1980.

Oh shit it doess come off a little elitist and I intended it to be quite the opposite. I think it is mostly pragmatic concerns with direct effects. In otherwords mining tax, gst, that sort of stuff is discussed and I know so as I come from a blue collar family, it is discussed because it effects food, security etc, I don't mean to say the average joe is idiot, I am just saying that these things take priority over far away ideological wet dreams and rightfully so. Anarchism is rarely percieved in terms of practical steps that we can achieve, that are not to far away, thats one reason why it hasn't really caught on. I was trying to quench this notion that the average man should give a shit about every little far away fringe that pops up.

 

[-Lemon-]

Anarchism attracts quasi-educated adolescents (who have grown up in extremely comfortable surroundings) who want rebel for the sake of it.
Their pea-brains latch onto outdated slogans like 'free markets are efficient'', 'let kids play violent rape games', etc..and from there on they don't bother to actually study the material at hand.
It is for spoiled 'You-tube' fanatics, and none of them realise humans have, for the most part, lived in an anarchist society, where whoever had the most physical strength had absolute power, they don't realise that living standards in the stone-age where terrible, and that modern day living standards in Australia are pretty much a utopia compared to those in 'laissez faire' societies like Somalia.

(Not to mention the fact that it has no intellectual or mathematical basis whatsoever, all economic theory and evidence suggest big government > small government)

 

[badquinton304]

^ Still going on about children playing rape games.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

my 2 cents

The majority of people can't physically handle the idea of there not being a state. they're just like "no government, what? you're crazy". people like myself who believe the state is a bad thing and would love to see it go are ousted in society. I mean look at the Austrian school in general, nobody takes us seriously, and to my knowledge its not allowed to be taught in any major university.

and lastly there are more socialist hippies then ever before, the OP says people have been scared off socialism i beg to differ on that. whenever you bring up places like China, Russia or North Korea. they will just say that they did it wrong and that if it was done this way it would work. and so many people i have talked to in my life are socialists without even realising it. I have talked to people who advocate a world totalitarian state without fully realising what they are saying.

yep just my 2 cents

 

[strasiotto]

First thing I'm going to say is why aren't we differentiating between communism and socialism?

Anyway with anarchy, I'm thinking that there are quite a few anarchists around, just they have little impact because they all work as individuals and it would defeat the purpose of anarchy to band together.

aye? Ok, I was being slightly flippant.

Some people may be inclined towards anarchy, and then they end up thinking about how institutions have influenced them, for instance 'wait, without and education I would be fucked...' so they end up just deciding there is no point.

yay or nay?

 

[scuba_steve2121]

First thing I'm going to say is why aren't we differentiating between communism and socialism?

Anyway with anarchy, I'm thinking that there are quite a few anarchists around, just they have little impact because they all work as individuals and it would defeat the purpose of anarchy to band together.

aye? Ok, I was being slightly flippant.

Some people may be inclined towards anarchy, and then they end up thinking about how institutions have influenced them, for instance 'wait, without and education I would be fucked...' so they end up just deciding there is no point.

yay or nay?

there would be education

the only reason private schooling cost so much is to give the illusion that if you send your child there they will have a superior education. they do this so the can compete on some level with the public school system

its like brand vs no brand. no brand products like your no frills generic X fly spray is made by the same company who makes Mortein. the use the same formula its all exactly the same. however because is advertised and has better looking packaging people believe Mortein its better.

if the public system disappeared there would be a huge amount of consumers. schools would drop there prices. they would be similar to a public school that you go to now except they would have better standards because they have to compete to give a great product but at a lowest possible price.

 

[Ziva]

Anarchism attracts quasi-educated adolescents (who have grown up in extremely comfortable surroundings) who want rebel for the sake of it.
Their pea-brains latch onto outdated slogans like 'free markets are efficient'', 'let kids play violent rape games', etc..and from there on they don't bother to actually study the material at hand.
It is for spoiled 'You-tube' fanatics, and none of them realise humans have, for the most part, lived in an anarchist society, where whoever had the most physical strength had absolute power, they don't realise that living standards in the stone-age where terrible, and that modern day living standards in Australia are pretty much a utopia compared to those in 'laissez faire' societies like Somalia.

(Not to mention the fact that it has no intellectual or mathematical basis whatsoever, all economic theory and evidence suggest big government > small government)

excuse me where did you learn your economics?

 

[scuba_steve2121]

excuse me where did you learn your economics?

i know right, Somalia isn't even proper anarchy and has this guy even been to North Korea fuck me. biggest state and everybody is in grinding poverty

 

[SylviaB]

For the same reason that it was for so long considered self-evident that the sun revolves around the earth.