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school ranks? (1 Viewer)

sardonicerrors

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just a quick question about school rankings:

does the rank of your school in comparison to other schools (say 300s) make a difference in your individual mark?

Do they mark the kids that do one particular subject according to their school as a group before tabulating results or is it done individually regardless of what school they're from?

Ive heard that the marks we get as a group are important. the higher the average and hence slimmer the range between marks scales us up or something?

help is much appreciated =]
 

hvf26

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just a quick question about school rankings:

does the rank of your school in comparison to other schools (say 300s) make a difference in your individual mark?

Do they mark the kids that do one particular subject according to their school as a group before tabulating results or is it done individually regardless of what school they're from?

Ive heard that the marks we get as a group are important. the higher the average and hence slimmer the range between marks scales us up or something?

help is much appreciated =]
rank of school affects the scaling of your raw mark, if you go to a school ranked quite low (like 300s) youd have to get first in most of your subjects to avoid being grouped together with the other students

the closer together marks are = higher scaling
 

b00m

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how big of an impact do school ranks have though?

i've seen most people type in their marks into the ATAR calculators.. and generally, the calculators are never that far off :confused::confused: [ie 0.5 give or take at max, on these forums]
 

57o1i

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The moderating process*:

For each of your subjects your school will send the BOS a list showing the school marks attained by each student. The BOS doesn't care what these marks are. They want to see a) the ranks of each student and b) how large the spaces between each student are.

This happens before your HSC exams and you have the opportunity to verify these results before they're sent away.

Then you do your exams. During marking, you are marked as an individual. Your papers will be in a bundle with all the other scripts from your exam centre but this is for organisational purposes. No one else's marks are a factor in your exam score.

The BOS then takes your exam score and the exams scores of everyone else in your cohort and finds the average. This average is then transferred to the set of internal marks and becomes the central point. The BOS will assign the top internal student the top exam mark and the bottom internal student the bottom external mark (though not if the bottom mark is excluded for reasons given below). Then they will assign internal scores to the other students in the cohort which preserve the group mean and the relative gaps between each student as per the documentation the school sent off.

The average of your internal and external marks then becomes your final HSC score.

There are several rules designed to protect the group mean, including the exclusion of significant low outliers and anyone with successful illness/misadventure appeals. This is so that others aren't unfairly impacted.

The ideal scenario is that a school is able to send off documentation showing even gaps between students and then that cohort backs it up with a high exam average.

(*if I've made any errors here, sorry. Feel free to correct.
Also, scaling =! moderating. Scaling is done later by UAC and has nothing to do with BOS.)


Regarding school ranks:

School ranks are a past-tense measurement. There's no way to guarantee that just because a school was ranked ~300 in 2009 they won't be ranked ~200 in 2010. So school ranks are a guideline only, not cast-iron. Rather than past-tense school rankings, what matters is that all-important exam average of your cohort. That's what will end up influencing your internal mark. So the idea is that after your trials are over and you're finished competing against each other for rankings, the cohort is better off working together to make sure everyone has the tools to succeed in the exam. Those last few weeks (and then the holidays as well) are a really good time for cooperation, particularly in schools which have had lower rankings in the past. You don't have to devote time to the group at the expense of yourself but group learning can often be very beneficial, even if you're already at the top of the class (explaining or teaching things cements the concept in your own head).

Of course if you've come first in everything you don't need to worry about any of this because as long as you continue to come first in the exams you don't feel any of the effects of moderation. But it's still good to consider the rest of the cohort just in case you screw up your exam.
 

kphyl22

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I agree. People just go to highly ranked schools to make their resume look nice :p. Ive heard of a guy from Birrong Boys who got 99.2 UAI and a girl from Wiley park who got 99.5+ UAI. It just depends on how hard you work. If you put in the time and effort, even in a lowely ranked school, you can still get high. I know for sure that even in some of the top fully selective schools, students still get below 70 UAI/ATAR so meh
 

57o1i

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Yeah, essentially all these questions about school ranks and ATAR estimates boil down to two things: 1) check SAM for a general idea and 2) try hard. You don't have to go to a top ranked school to do well.
 
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I know this has been convered, but is it only first that is exempt from the cohorts performance or could it possible also be first and second, however the marks between first and second are very slim and their is a large 'chasm' of marks between second and third etc. Will a bad performing cohort still affect you?
 

57o1i

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if said student was second in internals AND externals (or even if first and second swapped over) and the first two students were high outliers then I think the student wouldn't be too adversely affected by moderation. The original gaps between students are preserved during the moderating process, so the second-ranked student isn't necessarily going to be dragged to hell by a badly-performing cohort. Something very similar happened to me and another girl in Japanese last year (I think our group's results went 96, 95, 82-ish ...etc). In fact, high outliers can end up being good for the group by pulling the average up a bit.
 
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Thanks for clearing that up for me 57o1i. I just can't seem to get a straight answer from teachers and your response seems the most logical I've had.
 

showy

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If you are ranked first, your school rank and cohort do not affect you at all.
I hope this is true, I'm in a position where I'm coming first with a big gap to the cohort and I don't want them to drag me dowwwwwwwn.
 

57o1i

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Thanks for clearing that up for me 57o1i. I just can't seem to get a straight answer from teachers and your response seems the most logical I've had.

No problem. Yeah, teachers can be very unhelpful regarding BOS/UAC stuff even with questions about moderation which is one of the only parts of the marking process actually explained to the public. They obviously want to keep themselves covered in case their advice turns out to be wrong or circumstances change etc but I know how you feel, it's very frustrating.

Showy, it is true. If you come first in assessment and exam then you don't experience any effects due to moderating.
 

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