We made a mistake with Rudd, didn't we? (6 Viewers)

[ongitsanjali]

political economics doesn't count

errm do you even know what politcal economy is? it's more relevant to the subject than traditional economics which presents a very two-dimensional view based on silly neo-classical theory... mine explores all the different schools of thought and focuses on citiquing them

 

[ongitsanjali]

lol and derailed thread much =P

 

[Lauchlan]

"I await an intellectual answer"

Ive been waiting for such answers, and have recieve minimal examples.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

"Progression for progression's sake is not helpful."

I remember a similar quote from the fictional Prof. Umbridge (in Harry Potter 5)..
I think that Rowling was actually putting forward a political side to governments as an issue of control. She said that (she was made to be evil/in a sense representing liberal/national views)... its a hunch, but thats who you reminded me of when you said that. it is arguable how progression without the sake of progression is achieved. you basically made general statements about policy and benefiting people.... all of that which you put forward is contradictory - and that quote sums that up, you should stamp that message on your head or get a T-shirt with it...and see what reactions you get (not positive)

lol how about don't try and fix if it ain't broken?

 

[scuba_steve2121]

errm do you even know what politcal economy is? it's more relevant to the subject than traditional economics which presents a very two-dimensional view based on silly neo-classical theory... mine explores all the different schools of thought and focuses on citiquing them

yea i have explored all of these different schools of thought from communism to fascism all the way to anarcho-syndicalism and it seems capitalism kicks all their asses

 

[ongitsanjali]

yea i have explored all of these different schools of thought from communism to fascism all the way to anarcho-syndicalism and it seems capitalism kicks all their asses

...
because?

anyways dude why are you doing engineering? you should be doing what im doing.

 

[Lauchlan]

@Lauchlan

Health and education are also state government issues. It was not so much Howard's responsibility as it was the STATE GOVERNMENTS' responsibilities to address these issues.

Note: Health and education are concurrent issues, that is, they are responsibilities of both state and federal governments - pretty sad you dont know your own constitution.

1. stop living in the past - howard's political career is over.
2. stop trying to sheild howards failure of action with 'the blame game' - the state gov'ts have enough problems without being 100% blamed for something that is only a percentage of theirs.
3. talk about tony abbott - why isnt their a post glorifying tony abbott saying he should be PM.... why? because many people dont think he is the best man for the job. he is the opposition - if you vote for the opposition you will get abbott, not howard.

 

[SylviaB]

Lentern's socially conservative and economically liberal

the worst combination

fuck

 

[ongitsanjali]

1. stop living in the past - howard's political career is over.

err...yeh but that's kinda what the thread happens to be about.

 

[Lauchlan]

they may not like him, but in comparison to kevin rudd tony abbot is a god send.
personally i think for someone to run a country they should be intelligent and knowledgeable. tony abbot did a double bachelor of law and economics from sydney uni, then was a rhodes scholar where he did a double degree in theology and politics from Oxford university. kevin rudd has a arts degree *cough*

while university degrees are helpful, they do not measure you as a politician.

i dont care what you say - bachelor of arts is good enough in my opinion. you can do every single degree there is if you want, but that doesnt make you any more qualified, intelligent or knowledgable in politics - which is all that matters.
you just admitted to what i said - many of the opposition supporters dont like their leader... saying 'in comparison to rudd' isnt good enough.
theres something wrong here.... and it is illustrate in your comment - you just dont get it.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

...
because?

anyways dude why are you doing engineering? you should be doing what im doing.

because all other systems lead to primitiveness or poverty

 

[Lauchlan]

Political experience makes a hell of a difference to, firstly, political fortunes and secondly politicians' efficacy in parliament.



I really love it how Howard supporters continually refer back to shit like this. Typical responses include:

"Howard knew how to run a country"
"Howard could make the tough decisions"
"Howard had the right idea"

All these phrases are nothing but empty rhetoric.

I could rattle off a huge long list of Howard government failures (children overboard, Iraq war et al) but now is not the time to elaborate on them. Basically, anyone I talk to who spins this shit about political decision-making has absolutely squat to substantiate it with.



And here's where you're interpretation of this term becomes readily apparent. Because what you really mean is that Howard and Abbott acted on their own beliefs a lot of the time. Let's face it. WorkChoices was part of a Howard vendetta against the Left. Remember RU486? And Abbott's despicable and ignorant belief that 'the poor make themselves poor'? 'Hard decisions', hey. Unfortunately they relied upon their own principles a little too much. Personally, I actually value (TO AN EXTENT) Rudd's willingness to be guided by polls above the ideological fervour of Howard and Abbott.

Furthermore, because Abbott is so disinterested in how he comes across, he makes his true personality readily apparent: he is a partisan thug.



'If I knew anything about economics'? What are you, a Nobel laureate? How about you stop with the patronising crap and accept that correlation does not imply causality all the time. There was this peachy little thing called the 'mineral boom' which just happened to be in full swing throughout the Howard government's reign. But, oh, that has nothing to do with Australia's economic fortunes, it was just that Costello was such a good treasurer...

As an aside, its easy to cancel government debt and build up a huge surplus whilst at the same time bringing other sectors to a crashing standstill (public education, anyone?).



Aboriginal apology
Repeal of Howard IR legislation
ETS (TBC)
Stimulus (efficacy notwithstanding)
Internet filter (hopefully not)

These are the main things that Rudd has done.

i like this comment.

 

[Riet]

how many ml in a pint
i reckon i could down one in less than 11secs

568, <7 or you suck m8

 

[Lauchlan]

i personally respect howards respons to the aboriginals. it is the rresponsibility of the government of the time to apologise, not the government in power.

IR was a great idea for the econmy, in the long run it would have been great. u blind supporters cant see the long run

stimulus: i think i said enough above, but still CRAP

internet filter: u said hopefully not, great support. seriously if this gets past its a giant step towards communism, but hey i guess some of u strong labor supporters would be happy with that

so if our generation said "we didnt pollute our environment so why should we try to fix another generations mess?" that would be ok.
under ultimate liberal power our generation would be suffering and under tyranny.
i would go with communism (which isnt the aim of labor anyway) over that.

 

[Lauchlan]

'It's something called international relations'. Nice. Do you have ANY clue what you are on about? Seriously, I'm not interested in getting into a heated discussion on these issues. I'll just say that it was dumb of us to participate in an invasion that had NO legal pretext and was supported on the basis of a deliberate misleading of the populations of this country and of the US and UK as well.




Of course I disagree with him. It's not the day to day actions that are as important as the overall mentality that is created by a life in poverty. A sense of helplessness that is felt almost every day contributes as does the desire to spend what little money you have on indulgences, a practice encouraged by advertising and so on. I also think the welfare system itself is partly to blame and creates a level of dependency. BUT - you cannot just say that the poor are poor because they don't know how to save money. To do so is to totally and utterly ignore the bigger picture.

Tony Abbott does call things as he sees them. This is moronic firstly because it puts opinion above policy (politicians should think with their head as opposed to their heart) and secondly because his opinions aren't worth a pinch of shit because the next day he will come out with something different. All that the Abbott opposition is interested in doing is trying to chip away at the edifice that is Rudd's approval rating. They have made NO attempt to present themselves as a viable alternative government. As long as this is the case, I am not interested in supporting them.



Why don't you do some fucking research? There is evidence from multiple quarters to suggest that the stimulus had a beneficial effect on the state of the economy. It is probably true that the GFC would not have been felt as badly in Australia anyway, but with the help of the stimulus and low interest rates it was felt even less. And herein lies another point of Liberal idiocy. In early 2009, Turnbull was going on about 'Rudd's recession' - that was, before we found out that we weren't actually going to have a recession. Suddenly, that particular campaign point was nowhere to be found. Consistency in policy? I think not!

The last thing I want to say is that you call me a 'blind supporter'. Unfortunately, it is you who is the blind supporter. From your attempts to justify what can clearly be judged as Howard failures (including your empty political jingles) to your inability to recall a single 'memorable' thing that the Rudd government has done (quoting you directly; you said 'memorable' things, not 'good' things) you demonstrate the hallmarks of a partisan Liberal hack.

Oh, and learn how to multi-quote for god's sake.

i like this comment too.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

so if our generation said "we didnt pollute our environment so why should we try to fix another generations mess?" that would be ok.
under ultimate liberal power our generation would be suffering and under tyranny.
i would go with communism (which isnt the aim of labor anyway) over that.

sentence doesn't make sense

also communism really? you would prefer living in poverty?

 

[Lauchlan]

im sorry, but the two greatest prime ministers of all time will go down as menzies and howard. no two ways about them, they did what they had to do, thats why they where voted in time and time again.

just because someone is voted in time and time again doesnt mean they are the best - it means they have majority popularity.

since when did anyone know exactly what they want or need? we as humans dont, so your statement is false. think of better reasons and justification, or shut up.

and talk about tony abbott. discuss why he would be a good PM, without talking about Rudd. (i know its pretty impossible for you liberals/nationals)

 

[scuba_steve2121]

just because someone is voted in time and time again doesnt mean they are the best - it means they have majority popularity.

since when did anyone know exactly what they want or need? we as humans dont, so your statement is false. think of better reasons and justification, or shut up.

and talk about tony abbott. discuss why he would be a good PM, without talking about Rudd. (i know its pretty impossible for you liberals/nationals)

you got to be kidding me right of course we now what we want and need

also thing is Abbot wouldn't be a good PM he would just be less crappy then Rudd

lesser of two idiots

 

[Lauchlan]

no, he like the rest of us were just annoyed at how you could not see how incredibly wrong on all levels u were

i dare you give every example of where i am wrong, what the alternate 'right' answer is and why/how this is so.

if you can give me such a comment that i cannot possibly respond to, good for you. but i am yet to see it. therefore you have no evidence that im wrong. your empty statements are getting you nowhere - i am actually talking politics, but you are trying to pick out whats right and wrong without justifying your answer. typical liberal....

 

[Lauchlan]

you do realise he then showed that into the private health system with a rebate scheme on private health insurance to make it more affordable because private is 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times better then public

so? everyone using public hospitals you idiot - even private users.
justify why it is good to make mainstream services worse? your pathetic.