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what proof is there that god exists? (2 Viewers)

Omar-Comin

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um, there was absolutely no need to be so rude :)

just like you're entitled to your own opinion, don't you think others should?

and by the way, i was never trying to force my opinion on others, i simply said ''maybe hardship is a test of endurance...''

i never said ''fuck you everyone, hardship is a test of endurance and if you don't agree then you can all eat a dick and die slow''


:)
I find it nauseating when fetid semi-autistic creeps like yourself claim to know the mind of 'god'.
I can imagine you and your halfwit cronies watching an innocent child being tortured and mutilated, and while they scream and shake you hold them down and whisper to them 'god is testing your faith'.


I say no to this, this warped worldview of yours does not deserve my respect, such patiently bogus and disgusting bigotry deserves to be ridiculed and condemned.
Now repudiate this nonsense at once, you charlatan maggot-minds are not to be tolerated in this day and age.
 

jaylove

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I find it nauseating when fetid semi-autistic creeps like yourself claim to know the mind of 'god'.
I can imagine you and your halfwit cronies watching an innocent child being tortured and mutilated, and while they scream and shake you hold them down and whisper to them 'god is testing your faith'.


I say no to this, this warped worldview of yours does not deserve my respect, such patiently bogus and disgusting bigotry deserves to be ridiculed and condemned.
Now repudiate this nonsense at once, you charlatan maggot-minds are not to be tolerated in this day and age.


lol firstly.. i wouldnt see someone being tortured and tell them that its a test you freak,

secondly.. can you stop talking like were in medieval times?
such patiently bogus and disgusting bigotry deserves to be ridiculed and condemned.
Now repudiate this nonsense at once
<< like seriously.. wtf? LOL

thirdly.. no one told you that you had to agree with my opinion:) im not forcing you to.

so my advice to you is to relax and stop attacking people just because their opinions differ from yours :)
 

Omar-Comin

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lol firstly.. i wouldnt see someone being tortured and tell them that its a test you freak,

secondly.. can you stop talking like were in medieval times?
such patiently bogus and disgusting bigotry deserves to be ridiculed and condemned.
Now repudiate this nonsense at once << like seriously.. wtf? LOL

thirdly.. no one told you that you had to agree with my opinion:) im not forcing you to.

so my advice to you is to relax and stop attacking people just because their opinions differ from yours :)

Pardon?
Child rapists are of the opinion that raping children is pleasurable, murderers are of the opinion that killing innocent people is okay.
Even your constipated mind should realise that the mere act of holding some opinion does not make it 'off-limits'
In fact these foul doctrines, or 'opinions' as you choose to call them, have no place in modern society, the question here is how can you possibly expect us to not attack such vile world-views (i.e innocent babies are tested, that is they are murdered and raped, in order to appease some allmighty sadist) ?
 

abbeyroad

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nice, what else can your flying penis do besides flying?
 

jaylove

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Pardon?
Child rapists are of the opinion that raping children is pleasurable, murderers are of the opinion that killing innocent people is okay.
Even your constipated mind should realise that the mere act of holding some opinion does not make it 'off-limits'
In fact these foul doctrines, or 'opinions' as you choose to call them, have no place in modern society, the question here is how can you possibly expect us to not attack such vile world-views (i.e innocent babies are tested, that is they are murdered and raped, in order to appease some allmighty sadist) ?
hey can you relax? seriously?

i didnt mean it like that i didnt mean if a baby gets raped then its a test.


i ment some hardships experienced by people MAYYY be tests of endurance for exampe living in a poor country

but then again i dont expect everyone to think like me so can you stop attacking me? ecause im not forcing my opinion down your throat.

bos members need to take a chill pill, seriously :S
everyone is so rude.
 

AAEldar

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An arguement that I always find entertaining is this one:

How could the universe have come into existance from nothing?

I don't believe in God - at all. But when people say this, I answer with "nobody knows", and they then go on and say something like "You see, God created the Universe and so this is evidence for it", I then ask "Who created God?" to which the reply is "God always has and always will exist".

Believers in God can NOT use this arguement, it is flawed beyond reason. I can't explain how the universe came into existance, and no one can. But neither can you believers explain how God came into existance. How can you argue with something when you can't explain your own beliefs?

That's what it is - the belief in something. I believe that the universe was created in the Big Bang, etc. and others believe in God, that's fine.

Personally though, I don't think there is any proof that God exists. In the article:

Does God Exist - Six Reasons to Believe that God is Really There - Existence of God - Proof of God

It lists things like how the Earth is the right distance away from the sun, has a moon at perfect orbit, that the Earth is the perfect size. This is obvious, if it wasn't perfect for us, then we wouldn't have evolved the way we have. We could have evolved differently, or not at all (assuming believers in God believe in evolution).

How can someone (Jesus) defy the very laws of nature that his Father put in place?
 

AAEldar

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I'm fond of a debate, so I hope someone would. I'm open to whatever someone has to say :)
 

mirakon

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Do you really think anyone can be fucked reading that?
YEs, but these arguments have already been addressed on nearly every single page on this thread, so noone's bothered to reply anymore.

btw your psots are far more entertaining, if immature, they're still hilarious.
 

Scorch

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To answer the thread title: none, at all.

Theories of ontology and theism are based on terribly flawed logic that has been losing ground consistently and rapidly as science gains it.

Christians then try and say "well it's just as much a leap of faith to say that he doesn't exist", but this is unscientific. We assume that, if there is no proof of something's existence, it probably doesn't exist. This is why there is as much proof for God's existence as that of unicorns or fairies of the flying spaghetti monster (google it, brilliant satire).

If anyone wants me to respond to a point in particular, I'm happy to.
 

brendroid

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Scorch, I'm just curious about your stance on the philosopher Soren Kierkegaard. Your point about 'leap of faith' just brought him to mind. You appear very well educated so I just thought I'd hear you speak.
 

ar7

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explain steven bradbury's win in the speed skating in 2002....
 

Scorch

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Scorch, I'm just curious about your stance on the philosopher Soren Kierkegaard. Your point about 'leap of faith' just brought him to mind. You appear very well educated so I just thought I'd hear you speak.
I haven't read much of him but I'm sort of familiar with his ideas. I agree with him in that he separates objective knowledge and faith, but do not understand how such an argument can result in anything but the abandonment of such nonsensical faith. The only way I could conceive that one could justify holding such faith would be some variation of Pascal's Wager and that is a highly, highly flawed mode of thinking.

But things weren't as simple as they are now, in regards to what we scientifically know.
 

mirakon

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Referring to the question of faith in the above couple of posts, Voltaire addressed this argument by saying, and I crudely summarise, that if there is no God, then it would be necessary to invent one as without any higher moral being, humans will become errant creatures. There would be no reason to stay good to the other aspects of our universe if our only purpose was evolutionary survival. It would bring about a moral equilibrium of sorts within nature. It is a way of subduing the id of humans and resulting in more of a super-ego instead of an ego within us.
 

LiveForever28

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The truth is no one can know. We dont even know if knowledge exists. We know everything as much as we know nothing. Humans are just something. If God exists, its likely humans wouldnt be able to comprehend his existence anyway. All philosophers have wasted their time. Its impossible to define anything as we can only attach a human perspective to something. And all the rhetoric in the world, which all of these modern philosophical "geniuses" seem to be so fond of, can change that. We are what are. That is all.
 

Lauchlan

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sel-explanatory,im currently a non-believer.so enlighten me with your'e insight,any way you can and persuade me with near unconditional certainty that any kind of "god" exists and what does this mean for my life.

provide evidence for youre statements.and only support youre argument and don't comment or rebuff other thoeries or idea' s i want youre knowledge and none of this this is wrong therefore i am right such "abiogenisis is unexplainable therefore god exists.you get the idea.
its the word of a group of people at the time, arguably a cult, who make claims (and have 'documented' these in the bible).... against all the illogic contradictions.
the whole notion of a godly being communicating with humans on earth would be the slightest bit valid if this so called "GOD" (or Jesus) could communicate in such a way that allerted the entire human population. that is what we call evidence - everyone witnessing God, seeing, hearing ect. BUT of course the scriptures convieniently tell us that it is a personal experience. this is what makes Christianity such a generic and non-specific religion. and of course the main reason Christianity has dominated the western world is guilt. people fear that statements made over 2000 years ago (like heaven, hell) could be true. i refer everyone to the episode of south park where some guy says "if i told you i communicated with a giant spaghetti monster would you believe me?" this obviously makes this argument bias to the athiest side.
however, i believe christianity has developed society to share good, ethical values.
thats not to say it doesnt contradict itself with ever word in the bible, which it very nearly does. so in answer to your question - search me. im yet to see this 'proof'.
although.... all of this could be explained as a psychological belief system to fill in the blanks in what otherwise would be an unanswered 'life'. well i think ive ranted on for long enough, that is all. :spin: :argue: :spin: :karate: :spin:
 

SeCKSiiMiNh

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its the word of a group of people at the time, arguably a cult, who make claims (and have 'documented' these in the bible).... against all the illogic contradictions.
the whole notion of a godly being communicating with humans on earth would be the slightest bit valid if this so called "GOD" (or Jesus) could communicate in such a way that allerted the entire human population. that is what we call evidence - everyone witnessing God, seeing, hearing ect. BUT of course the scriptures convieniently tell us that it is a personal experience. this is what makes Christianity such a generic and non-specific religion. and of course the main reason Christianity has dominated the western world is guilt. people fear that statements made over 2000 years ago (like heaven, hell) could be true. i refer everyone to the episode of south park where some guy says "if i told you i communicated with a giant spaghetti monster would you believe me?" this obviously makes this argument bias to the athiest side.
however, i believe christianity has developed society to share good, ethical values.
thats not to say it doesnt contradict itself with ever word in the bible, which it very nearly does. so in answer to your question - search me. im yet to see this 'proof'.
although.... all of this could be explained as a psychological belief system to fill in the blanks in what otherwise would be an unanswered 'life'. well i think ive ranted on for long enough, that is all. :spin: :argue: :spin: :karate: :spin:
tl;dr :)
 

Scorch

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Referring to the question of faith in the above couple of posts, Voltaire addressed this argument by saying, and I crudely summarise, that if there is no God, then it would be necessary to invent one as without any higher moral being, humans will become errant creatures. There would be no reason to stay good to the other aspects of our universe if our only purpose was evolutionary survival. It would bring about a moral equilibrium of sorts within nature. It is a way of subduing the id of humans and resulting in more of a super-ego instead of an ego within us.
However this is, again, a highly problematic argument. The problem with engaging with 18th century thinkers on some of these issues is that our understanding of human evolution, early social interaction, history and other issues of reality has progresses a thousand times since then, and this invalidates many of his arguments.

Let's consider murder, for example, and take it as truth, for the purposes of the discussion, that basically every society on earth views murder, to differing degrees, as unacceptable (at least the indiscriminate killing of others within your society as a base line).

Now humanity is a biologically weak species, and our strength lies in our social bonds and relationships with other humans. It is this relationship and support network with those within our society that protects us from the dangers of rival species, and without this we are highly vulnerable to danger.

Since the development of early hominid societies, then, the continuation of our species has been invested in the continuation of such societal bonds, without which our safety net would break down and our species as a whole would be threatened. Thus, as early hominids developed, the idea that one should not commit an act that inherently breaks down the very bonds that form our sole barrier against the dangers of the natural world became so essential as to become ingrained in us.

This idea is so natural and so essential, when considered in a utilitarian sense, that when writing, speech and complex society became the norm, it is entirely natural that discourses of morality were developed that simply reflect the biological necessities which had been ingrained in our very existence for the past 190,000 years at the very least.

See where I'm coming from? There is no natural need to be told via discourses of religion that this behaviour is not moral, as the idea that it isn't moral is so deeply related to the fact that it is something that breaks down the fragment of society that keeps us safe, both as groups and individuals. In fact, these discourses of religion only reflect earlier discourses of morality that are drawn by early humans from their pensive interaction with the biological realities that they are encompassed by.
 

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