The PreUni trial selective school test (ASAT) (2 Viewers)

[oasfree]

I am sure most students going to PreUni would attend this trial test. They actually offer the trial test at least 3 times each year and mimick the profile mark that is similar to the NSW selective school test.

I would like to have your opinions on this test. Here is what I gathered from people I know and I also have some one going for the last test who did not go to PreUni tutoring

1- Like all coaching companies, they claim their trial test is written by the same company that write the real NSW selective school tests (legal but hard to believe)
2- They claim they paid the company to write a test harder than the real test (easy to do)
3- They claim that the trial profile mark is very close to the real NSW selective school test mark (hard to verify, but some parents do swear by it).
4- They claim that ASAT is independent of PreUni (hard to beleive).

Like all claims, they are never very close to the truths. However I'd like to hear from ex-PreUni students who have done the trial tests for NSW selective schools.

I have compared 2 profile marks from two kids who are of similar academic ability in Math, GA and one is superior in English than the other. The one with superior English did not go to PreUni (or any coaching college). This one also scored a slightly higher profile mark in the real OC test 1.5 years ago and continued to extend the lead in UNSW school competitions. But in this ASAT selective school trial, the one that goes to PreUni scored a whopping 9% extra mark and ranked 22% higher among the population of just over 1100 students who did the test. According to the score line, it seems to suggest that those who go PreUni will score markedly higher in PreUni's selective trial tests than those who don't.

Obviously, this is hard to say without a larger sample of data. However it makes sense for PreUni to leak and coach questions similar to the ones they put into the trial (if ASAT is also part of PreUni) so that their students score higher and convince parents that PreUni is the one to send kids to.

However as parents seem to be pretty convinced that the real selective school marks are similar to the trial mark, there must be an explanation. Perhaps the tests are actually harder than the real test. But PreUni students are coached in advance to do well in this hard one. When it comes to the real selective school test which they claim to be easier, the students will manage to get similar score (as they do not know the questions at all). All the kids will be on a levelled playing field, PreUni stduents will drop a bit and other students will lift a bit.

If this theory is correct, coaching colleges seem to know all the tricks of trade to scare parents, encourage more to join and make existing customers feeling good.

I'd like to get comments from PreUni students on this matter.

 

[oasfree]

Oh dear! No response so far. I suppose PreUni students are afraid of being expelled if they leak something. It sure seems odd that some PreUni students scored markedly higher in the PreUni trial while they scored markedly lower in other wider public tests like UNSW school competitions. The question is about whether PreUni had been given the chance to practice on questions similar to the PreUni ASAT trial test prior to the actual test. If so, the test had been rigged and people pay $65 per kid for nothing.

 

[h3ll h0und]

or the lack of posts maybe because not many primary students go on this forum. or ppl dont care.

 

[WEMG]

Oh dear! No response so far. I suppose PreUni students are afraid of being expelled if they leak something. It sure seems odd that some PreUni students scored markedly higher in the PreUni trial while they scored markedly lower in other wider public tests like UNSW school competitions. The question is about whether PreUni had been given the chance to practice on questions similar to the PreUni ASAT trial test prior to the actual test. If so, the test had been rigged and people pay $65 per kid for nothing.

The UNSW tests are very different to the trial tests.

My younger brother just got his ASAT results recently and scored a lot higher than his first ASAT test. He somehow got exactly 213 points which would have allowed him to get into Fort Street High, and FSHS was his first choice when he had an interview with Pre Uni for school selection. Pre Uni does seem more shifty ever since the korean guy went back to korea lol

 

[PH011]

Pre Uni does seem more shifty ever since the korean guy went back to korea lol

Wait.... Isn't that Korean guy on the run for tax fraud/tax evasion? Had to go back to Korea for that reason or something... Not sure...
Also, who cares about pre-uni... Basically no one goes there after yr7/8... The teaching for senior years is pretty bad compared to alot of other places...

 

[Aerath]

Yeah, I remember jack all from 6 years ago.

 

[oasfree]

The UNSW tests are very different to the trial tests.

My younger brother just got his ASAT results recently and scored a lot higher than his first ASAT test. He somehow got exactly 213 points which would have allowed him to get into Fort Street High, and FSHS was his first choice when he had an interview with Pre Uni for school selection. Pre Uni does seem more shifty ever since the korean guy went back to korea lol

It does look a bit fishy. The kid I mentioned before got under 200 in the previous ASAT test, he was told that he could not get into the first 2 choices. Now he jumped right to top 6% of the whole lot and could possibly get into the first choice.

I don't think the test was rigged at marking time because no one would try to manually fix up over 1000 sets of marks. It is probably rigged in the 30+ holiday trials that they kids got between the previous and this ASAT. The kids got to do the questions in advance. Parents would be thrilled by the massive jump (and the effectiveness of the holiday trials).

 

[oasfree]

The SS result came out this morning. As I predicted, PreUni ASAT trial for 2010 was a fake. They already leaked similar questions to their students. My prediction was very close. I compare a student not going to Uni who got a result about 15% lower than a comparable PreUni students. This time the kid got about 15% higher than the PreUni student. The test is a waste of time and money. I see about 30% gap between its result and real result.

However this ASAT trial result is pretty close to the real result for PreUni students. For non-PreUni students who did this test, the result should be scaled up about 30% to get to the real result.

I am interested in what others here who have brothers or sisters doing the ASAT and the SS test can share. A few samples of data is not enough to be completely sure.

---
I exaggerated here. Non-PreUni students should scale up their ASAT trial result (the second last ASAT trial before the 2010 SS test) by 18% to see if they get close to the real SS profile marks. 30% is an exaggeration, I have to admit. Please do that if you were a non-PreUni student who did the ASAT test. Let me know how it works out.

 

[freetofly]

What do you mean that it was fake? leaking?

You can't exactly be expelled in Pre-Uni, I know, because I went there and I can't really complain much about it because I don't really care. I would just like to make a comment since I got my results today.

The tests are quite similar but not really. For the ASAT being harder that the SS, I don't know, the test for ASAT changes and so some are really hard and others aren't.

I have a question to ask, does anyone know the score for North Sydney Girls High 2010 (or is it 11)???

I got my results today and this is weird but (i have my reasons), I put Sydney Girls at the top of my list, so I don't actually know if I could've gotten into NSGH. (I really wanna know)

 

[oasfree]

What is the likely cut-off score for Sydney Girls? I am also interested in other top 5 schools like James Ruse, Baulkham Hills, Sydney Girls and Boys, North Sydney Girls and Boys. I know that the cut-off points have been lifted. One kid at 246 is on waiting list at James Ruse! The cut-off points just keep going higher each year! Last year slump was only at James Ruse, other schools seemed to move up.

 

[freetofly]

wow really? What do you mean by cut-off score? But do they really get higher each year?

 

[oasfree]

wow really? What do you mean by cut-off score? But do they really get higher each year?

I mean the cut-off marks where SS put the lower ones on reserve list. It looks like 224 only get to Hurlstone and on reserve at Sydney Boys at position 45th. It looks like all other top 5 SS have pushed the marks up to over 230. However the lower ranked ones seem to stay the same. Caringbah is about 204. At 187 it is only enough to get a reserve spot on Paramatta HS. It looks like people are more interested in the top schools and ignore the local ones.

Any one knows of other SS cut-off marks, please share.

 

[DARA92]

I also wonder why people are giving up their local selective school and opt to travel. Some up to 3 hours per day in travelling. I know a girl who has to stand more than one hour each trip travelling to Sydney Girls rather than 5 mins walk to Hurlstone. This really makes me wonder.

Last year, there were 28 all-rounder in Sydney Girls and 26 in Hurlstone. That's not a big difference esp when you realise there are around 30 boarding students in Hurlstone who claimed distance disadvanatge in SST and clearly below average.

Is it just for the name? Fame? Why push a 12 years old to travel so much and give up their precious resting and studying time? Is it worth it?

 

[freetofly]

I see...
They pushed the mark over 230? Apparently these are the scores from 2009(8 dunno?). I'm not too sure for accuracy but : Entry Scores of Selective Schools
Apparently the highest mark scored this year I think was... 274 or something close to that.

For Sydney Girls (is it one of the top 5?), If they are one of the top 5, they haven't pushed their score over 230 definitely.

In reply to DARA92:

Parents probably think that it would be better to send their kid to a high school with a higher ranking for HSC and stuff. It's not really much to do with distance or study time cause all you really have to do is wake up early in the morning even if you do lose a lot of your sleep.

I know lots of people who were going to send their children to somewhere like Burwood Girls High school rather than their local school because it's ranking was better than their local's and I've heard that Burwood doesn't exactly have a good reputation with it's student's, even if their just rumors.

When I say "Rank" Parents probably think "Better". (No offence/It might be just where I live or my parents)

And if anyone knows the entry scores for The selective schools THIS YEAR PLEASE PLEASE TELL!

 

[oasfree]

I see...
They pushed the mark over 230? Apparently these are the scores from 2009(8 dunno?). I'm not too sure for accuracy but : Entry Scores of Selective Schools
Apparently the highest mark scored this year I think was... 274 or something close to that.

Yes, old info is on the DET website. New info is available Apr next year. The marks got pushed up a lot. Sydney Girls is now definitely around 231 as 230 is on reserve and 232 got in. James Ruse about 249 as 247 is on reserve position 45. Even Hurlstone is now about 220 as 224 is in but on waiting spot 49 for Sydney Boys. So the top 5 schools except James Ruse is around 230-235. 237 got straight into Baulkham Hills. Scary. In 10 years, you would need 250+ to get into these top 5 schools!

I know 3 kids at 250+ decided not to go to James Ruse due to the distance. That means the distance does matter a lot to some people.

BTW, PreUni is cheating again. Today, they started calling families who sent kids to their ASAT trials (but never went to PreUni for coaching) to fish info about SS entry to publish on their website. I told people to reply "WE NO SPEAK ENGLISH" then hang up immediately. They kept on saying, "We can get some one who speak your language to call you back, Chinese, Cantonese, Mandarine, Vietnamese, Korean, Hindi, ???". Gosh, I don't want to give them more names to put into their James Ruse list.

 

[oasfree]

I also wonder why people are giving up their local selective school and opt to travel. Some up to 3 hours per day in travelling. I know a girl who has to stand more than one hour each trip travelling to Sydney Girls rather than 5 mins walk to Hurlstone. This really makes me wonder.

Last year, there were 28 all-rounder in Sydney Girls and 26 in Hurlstone. That's not a big difference esp when you realise there are around 30 boarding students in Hurlstone who claimed distance disadvanatge in SST and clearly below average.

Is it just for the name? Fame? Why push a 12 years old to travel so much and give up their precious resting and studying time? Is it worth it?

Well, I can say a few things about Hurlstone. It smells pretty bad. Asian kids are Aussie kids (very few) don't seem to talk. The school looks bad visually. Graffiti are seen on the walls. The reception area is so small and full of things that you can barely walk properly through. It seems to suggest all learning and not much else there. If kids can get to Sydney Girls/Boys, I cannot see why they would want Hurlstone.

 

[DARA92]

Well, I can say a few things about Hurlstone. It smells pretty bad. Asian kids are Aussie kids (very few) don't seem to talk. The school looks bad visually. Graffiti are seen on the walls. The reception area is so small and full of things that you can barely walk properly through. It seems to suggest all learning and not much else there. If kids can get to Sydney Girls/Boys, I cannot see why they would want Hurlstone.

I can see your points. Hurlstone really smells. Does James Ruse smells too? They are both agricultural.

"Can" get to Sydney boys/girls? What do you mean by can. I know a guy sending his boys to Sydney Grammar from Wollongong. If you are willing to travel more than a few hours per day, you "can" alomost get to any school.

My thoughts is: for a 12, 13 years old, resting time, learning time is so precious during their rapid growth, but they "stand" in the train everyday for 2/3 hours. They have to let others sit when the train is full.

I also know a couple who actually move to Carlingford once their girl was offered a place in James Ruse. That seems more rational.For Asian student proportions, isn't it true that Asian are predominant too in Sydney Boys/Girls? I think you mean Vietnamese, right?

I think, fame and pride and reputation play a big role in school selection. Esp all Asian families like to compare.

 

[oasfree]

I can see your points. Hurlstone really smells. Does James Ruse smells too? They are both agricultural.

"Can" get to Sydney boys/girls? What do you mean by can. I know a guy sending his boys to Sydney Grammar from Wollongong. If you are willing to travel more than a few hours per day, you "can" alomost get to any school.

I mean if they can get 230+ to go to Sydney Boys/Girls they would not want a local SS that isn't very nice. Travelling is a curse as it is hard on any one too young or too old. Standing on trains is terrible! Sydney trains are too crowded. Kids turn on the volume of their MP3 players and damage their ears before they turn 18. Some play games on their tiny devices and ruin their eyes even further. It would be better to be able to get to school by bus or car within 30 minutes ride.

I wonder about the partly selective schools. If the kids are really good they should be able to do well there too. As the the top SS are not really providing much else beside academic learning, going to a partly selective school is is probably culturally better. They tend to take kids in at about 190 marks. Parents don't like these simply because of reputation and the lack of top level academic competition. If the top kids don't automatically run to the top SS, the competition level at partly selective school won't be low and that would entice kids to apply to the closest SS rather than travel for hours.

SS is getting to the stage where one would certainly want to go to elite private schools if one can afford it. Elite private schools is more like partly selective schools with streaming for highly academic students. They also have many other things to add to cultural values to make students more well-rounded.

I hope the DET and/or school community can come up with some ways to get top performers to go to their local SS (or partly SS). Perhaps a bursary payment for kids from poor families or some kind of concession to uniform, fees, free enrichment in music and the arts ... that would give incentive for those who get over 240 to stay with their closest SS or partly SS.

 

[DARA92]

It all comes down to "empty glory". Asians need to be better than their friends, relatives and other people to feel good. I heard an Asian lady said the most important exam in his boy's life is "Selective School test". Not the HSC and others. She sends her boy to four different coaching schools at the same time.

I also know a lady whose girl got 251 in 2006 SST but opt to go to Hurlstone because of the location. But for 4 years now, she has to tell and explain to everyone that her girl is good enough to go to James Ruse, just chose not to go. I feel tired for her.

I myself go to one of the top selective and I don't see how the school have anything special to contribute to our HSC results. That's the attitude of the cohorts and the parents working togther. Selectives are only public schools. They don't teach anything special. As a matter of fact, we all ignore the teacher during our Maths class as we know whatever she taught us a year ago. Most of us go to coaching college, though. That's where we learn.

 

[oasfree]

I myself go to one of the top selective and I don't see how the school have anything special to contribute to our HSC results. That's the attitude of the cohorts and the parents working togther. Selectives are only public schools. They don't teach anything special. As a matter of fact, we all ignore the teacher during our Maths class as we know whatever she taught us a year ago. Most of us go to coaching college, though. That's where we learn.

Well, this is a no win situation when too much coaching is involved. That makes
teachers at schools irrelevant in some subjects offered by the coaching colleges.
But it is a frustration for both school teachers and the kids too. At least SS offers some extensions not offered else where.

Tutoring comes in two forms, one-on-one and class-based. Class-based coaching
looks cheaper because parents feel it is like day care allowing them to be free of
the kids to do things they like. The social cost is on the kids but the parents ignore that. One-on-one tutoring is more direct and useful but it is concentrated into about 90 minutes at about the same cost but parents don't get the "free-of-kids" time. As most kids from Asian backgrounds are sent to coaching, it is now a problem of fear feeds on fear. The parents become so competitive and insecured at the same time. They fear other kids will be better than theirs.

Got a knock from the door yesterday from a Chinese lady, mother of my child's classmate. She inquired, "How come no coaching, relaxing attitude and SS result is like ! ?". My answer was, "teach your own kids or get one-on-one tutoring for a short period each year when needed. And spend more time with the children". People start to feel the evil of multiple coaching classes outside normal working hours. They start to feel the evil of the pressure to send kids to ATAR factories but they don't know what to do about it. At least I don't have to explain why not Jamese Ruse. I got something even better.