The Cricket Thread (3 Viewers)

[Simo91]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

Hahaha, that's the funniest thing i've heard all day..Statistics don't mean shit when he has had a team that could beat any test nation with a monkey at the helm.

With Warne, McGrath, Langer, Hayden etc etc, any captain would have a top record with players of that calibre at his disposal.

So you are the idiot if you think Ponting is a great captain...

 

[williamc]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

Well look at his side? Sure we are in decline with no Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist, Hayden, Langer, Waughs et. al. but its still a very good side. He has lost two Ashes, he bowled part timers at the cost of a test match victory to save his skin, he is tactically inept. Mind you I doubt Clarke would be all that much better but nothing can change my belief he is a woeful captain.

he had reason for bowling the part-timers as you would know. He was in a tough predicament. Yes, we have lost 2 ashes, the one in 05, england had a great side just basically outplayed us (in the matches we didn't have mcgrath). How can you blame that on the captain? It is a team sport, and the captain only leads and directs the troops, he doesn't dictate their individual performance. Ponting would be doing all he can, mentally and physically to prepare his players to perform at their peak. When we lost the Ashes this year, again, across the entire series, we were outplayed. End of story.

 

[williamc]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

Hahaha, that's the funniest thing i've heard all day..Statistics don't mean shit when he has had a team that could beat any test nation with a monkey at the helm.

With Warne, McGrath, Langer, Hayden etc etc, any captain would have a top record with players of that calibre at his disposal.

So you are the idiot if you think Ponting is a great captain...

You're argument has no validity because mate, statistics are extremely important in determining a great captain. Let me guess, you play park cricket, Ponting has been playing professional cricket since he was 16. He has more of an idea than you buddy.

by the way Hayden only average 51 or something which is pretty avg, Langer even less.

 

[Mozza91]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

Although I don't think Ponting is quite as bad as people say, the amount of wins that Ponting has achieved as captain is a measure of the team performance and nothing else. In terms of the amount of really good decisions that Ponting has made, I'm not sure there are many. I think Steve Waugh was a much better captain but I'm not say Ponting is the worst ever.

This.
People who say he's great are wrong and people who say he's horrible are wrong.
In South Africa his captaincy was great and he is a good leader and our best option at the moment.
But the choice to bat first on a green top in overcast weather was stupid he was saved by grit from Hussey and Siddle and an inept rival captain.

 

[williamc]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

Looking back now, it is obvious that his decision to bat first was not a good one. Batting last at the SCG is however, equally as dangerous. To call him a bad captain for that error (and we won anyways) is beyond a joke.

 

[whatashotbyseve]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

he had reason for bowling the part-timers as you would know. He was in a tough predicament. Yes, we have lost 2 ashes, the one in 05, england had a great side just basically outplayed us (in the matches we didn't have mcgrath). How can you blame that on the captain? It is a team sport, and the captain only leads and directs the troops, he doesn't dictate their individual performance. Ponting would be doing all he can, mentally and physically to prepare his players to perform at their peak. When we lost the Ashes this year, again, across the entire series, we were outplayed. End of story.

Well I disagree we were outplayed in 05, but the last Ashes series turned at Cardiff. England were comprehensively outplayed and got out of that with a draw that felt like a win just to what I maintain is Ponting's ineptitude in not managing his bowlers properly. Sure I agree we were outplayed across the five tests and England were well worth their victory but had we gone up 1-0 after Cardiff who knows what happens? I think he is way too defensive. It was no coincidence, for example, that is was not Ponting who was captain when we won in India (the 'final frontier') in 04, but Gilchrist.

It's the little things that annoy me - his overly defensive style, his inability to enforce a follow on, he is too slow to react to swings in the game. That being said, his declarations in the first test against the Paki's were terrific. He is not the worst captain we have ever had but against his predecessors of our generation like Waugh and Taylor he doesn't stack up imo. But like I said I doubt we have anyone better so we are stuck with him for a few more years.

 

[williamc]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

Well I disagree we were outplayed in 05, but the last Ashes series turned at Cardiff. England were comprehensively outplayed and got out of that with a draw that felt like a win just to what I maintain is Ponting's ineptitude in not managing his bowlers properly.

He set aggressive fields, the bowlers were just not able to execute the plans (which worked in the 1st innings) and the English were able to scrap a draw. It was fine cricket.

Sure I agree we were outplayed across the five tests and England were well worth their victory but had we gone up 1-0 after Cardiff who knows what happens? I think he is way too defensive.

Well that happens. Team with character fight hard and can scrap a result. Happens in any sport. I thought he was in no way defensive.

It was no coincidence, for example, that is was not Ponting who was captain when we won in India (the 'final frontier') in 04, but Gilchrist.

You can not be serious. Even the cricketing mastermind of Steve Waugh, in 01, was not able to overcome India at home, one of our strongest teams, statistically at least.

It's the little things that annoy me - his overly defensive style, his inability to enforce a follow on, he is too slow to react to swings in the game.

Laxman and Dravid bat for 2 days and then we lose. That can't be Ponting fondest memory in playing in a team which has enforced the follow on. As for being slow to react to swings in the game, that is completely unsubstantiated comment. I'm sure if you draw any example (which i doubt you even could) even i could well explain why he chose to do what he did so.

That being said, his declarations in the first test against the Paki's were terrific. He is not the worst captain we have ever had but against his predecessors of our generation like Waugh and Taylor he doesn't stack up imo. But like I said I doubt we have anyone better so we are stuck with him for a few more years.

I never said he was our greatest captain. Statistics don't lie, and i believe he is a great captain.

 

[whatashotbyseve]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

He also won 16 tests in a row remember in a team with McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist in it - now any captain could win plenty of matches with those once in a century players. So that skews his statistics upwards. I think history will remember this as a transition era but not Ponting the captain fondly. My concern is that we are not even remotely grooming Clarke for the role, Waugh stepped down as ODI captain to give Ponting captaincy experience but that doesn't seem to happening soon.

 

[williamc]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

Well think of it. Which method do most people refer to when they adjudge the greatest cricketing nation? Is it the test rankings or ODI trophy's, which i guess is the only tangible measure (ODI trophy's)

 

[BlackDragon]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

Statistics don't actually exist. They are a meme. They are abitrary and don't tell us much.

 

[williamc]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

lol what

Statistics give you an unbiased mathematical breakdown of the performance of a team/player. By nature they are objective, and allow for proficient analysis into who performed at the highest standard, ceteris paribus.

 

[BlackDragon]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

They are not objective, they are abitrary. Moreover, they oversimplify.

 

[williamc]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

By that logic Australia isn't the worlds top/best test cricketing nation.

Its:

1 India
2 SA
3 Sri Lanka
4 Australia
5England

By the ICC's test match ranking system, yes you are correct. We got beaten at home by SA and lost to England again in the Ashes last yr

 

[BlackDragon]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

The way statistics are interpreted is personal opinion

 

[williamc]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

The way statistics are interpreted is personal opinion

They minimise subjectivity at-least, even upon interpretation, given they are correct facts.

HOW CAN YOU ARGUE AGAINST THE DON BEING THE BEST BATSMEN OF ALL TIME WITH A BATTING AVERAGE OF ALMOST 100 WHEN, IN THAT TIME, ANYTHING ABOVE 40 WAS CONSIDERED EXCELLENT!?!?!??!!?

 

[BlackDragon]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

I'm just saying that statistics aren't as removed from personal opinion as you might think. Also their creation is arbitrary.

Obviously Don Bradman's has impressive numbers but I don't know if he was the best batsmen of all time because I never saw him bat.

 

[whatashotbyseve]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

Lol of course he was the best batsmen of all time. I think Graeme Pollock has the second best average and his was only 60.

I know Ponting is the winningest captain in history but I would like to see what % of matches he has won and compare that to past and current captains.

 

[williamc]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

This argument will continue to go around in circles so i rest my case with my last word:

If by subjectivity you believe you can adjudge who is truely the best, wouldn't you like to believe Richie Benard when he says, Don Bradmad was the greatest batsmen he ever saw bat, given his opinion is like god's own words in the cricket arena? It is by no coincidence that he also, easily, has the greatest statistics to his name.

 

[P.T.F.E]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

Give up Black Dragon

 

[BlackDragon]

Re: The Official Cricket Thread

There can be no objective opinion on who is truly the best. There is just no 'truly the best'.