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Can an MD work as a nurse? (1 Viewer)

Schoey93

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Hello all,

Can a qualified medical doctor work as a nurse without obtaining a Bachelor of Nursing? Can they become a registered nurse without further study? Similarly, can a qualified MD work as a physiotherapist without completing extra formal education and training?

Thank you.

Regards,

James
 

purplemonkey

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I think an MD would probably still need to get some extra education, because although we take similar A&P classes, med students focus a lot more on disease processes and nurses focus a lot on patient care, communication, emotions, etc.

But, if they applied for a BN they would have all the science subjects credited so there would only be about 5 subjects left for them to complete
 

purplemonkey

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Anatomy and Physiology. Basically learn about the body a system at a time, including anatomy, physiology, microbiology, pharmacology, pathophysiology. That's the lectures.

In the tutes you basically get given a pt case study and you apply what you've learnt in the lecture to the case study to come up with a diagnosis, treatment, what the risk factors were, etc.


I think it would be similar with going from MD to physio. I mean, they know all the bones, muscles and ligaments - but I would imagine that physios would know them in crazy detail and how to manipulate one to get a particular result...I'm not sure if stuff like that ever come up in the medicine ciricculum (maybe ortho?)...
 
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I think it would be similar with going from MD to physio. I mean, they know all the bones, muscles and ligaments - but I would imagine that physios would know them in crazy detail and how to manipulate one to get a particular result...I'm not sure if stuff like that ever come up in the medicine ciricculum (maybe ortho?)...
This.

Actually, I read this article a while back and i can't seem to find it now but it stated that specialist physiotherapists have greater knowledge on the muskuloskeletal system than general practioner doctors, and that physio's knowledge on the musko system alone is on par with that of orthapedic specialists. Obviously, they do not have the knowledge on how to perform surgery lol. Similiarly, general physios have greater expertise on diagnoses of diseases than gp's so i doubt an MD can become a physio without extra training. Its kind of like an MD wanting become a dentist. Different knowledge and training altogether.
 

A Stone Monkey

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Hello all,

Can a qualified medical doctor work as a nurse without obtaining a Bachelor of Nursing? Can they become a registered nurse without further study? Similarly, can a qualified MD work as a physiotherapist without completing extra formal education and training?

Thank you.

Regards,

James
James is a male name?

Wishful thinking; or no, absolutely not. It is either stipulated or implied in the legislation that in order for a nurse to work, he/she/it needs to be registered, which, in turn, requires a valid diploma or degree in nursing.

The job descriptions and vocations of a medical officer and a nurse are very, very distinct, as are the educations. Maybe nurses do tend to patients for greater percentage of time, but seldom will you have a doctor wash patients or the like. Furthermore, any blurring between the distinctions of the jobs is legally inadvisable; (e.g., as far as one is concerned, even if you have a medical degree, are a qualified doctor who's rego'd, if you work as a nurse, you're a nurse.)

Physiotherapists cannot become doctors without medical school, and doctors cannot become physiotherapists without further studies in physiotherapy.
I think an MD would probably still need to get some extra education, because although we take similar A&P classes, med students focus a lot more on disease processes and nurses focus a lot on patient care, communication, emotions, etc.
Similar A&P classes; lol, no.

And, yeah, you'd think an "MD" would probably need some extra education.

I haven't been to nursing school, but you've been to both?? How admirable.
But, if they applied for a BN they would have all the science subjects credited so there would only be about 5 subjects left for them to complete
I imagine someone who undertook medicine, passed their exams, and transferred/graduated, then re-applied for nursing could probably get some exemptions.

Totally, definitely doesn't work the other way around, though.
Anatomy and Physiology. Basically learn about the body a system at a time, including anatomy, physiology, microbiology, pharmacology, pathophysiology. That's the lectures.
Depends where you go.
In the tutes you basically get given a pt case study and you apply what you've learnt in the lecture to the case study to come up with a diagnosis, treatment, what the risk factors were, etc.
Wait, what is this? Med, dent, or nursing?

If for non-med, non-dent, well, holy shit.
I think it would be similar with going from MD to physio. I mean, they know all the bones, muscles and ligaments - but I would imagine that physios would know them in crazy detail and how to manipulate one to get a particular result...I'm not sure if stuff like that ever come up in the medicine ciricculum (maybe ortho?)...
LLLOL NAW.
This.

Actually, I read this article a while back and i can't seem to find it now but it stated that specialist physiotherapists have greater knowledge on the muskuloskeletal system than general practioner doctors, and that physio's knowledge on the musko system alone is on par with that of orthapedic specialists.
Well, of course.
Obviously, they do not have the knowledge on how to perform surgery lol.
Maybe they do; it's just they cannot perform it without a valid medical degree, accreditation from and registration with a college and board.

Still, it's not like you can really perform a surgery anytime soon after graduating from med school, ANYWAY.
Similiarly, general physios have greater expertise on diagnoses of diseases than gp's so i doubt an MD can become a physio without extra training.
No.

Apples and oranges. GP's and other medical professionals are trained in medicine, should be able to/can handle more than the musculoskeletal system, can prescribe.

Physios are allied health (exercise science, health science) providers, and do whatever they do. AFAIK, physios do not diagnose or offer primary healthcare; instead, they are beings that are educated and specialised such to offer secondary care - help the patient, help the doctor(s).

Perhaps the closest specialisations to physiotherapy for med graduates, post PG1 (and PG2, in NSW), are sports medicine and orthopedics.
Its kind of like an MD wanting become a dentist. Different knowledge and training altogether.
Lol, no.

Considering that most Australian (medical and dental) schools with both (graduate-entry) medicine and dentistry hold the same lectures for both medicine and dentistry, you can claim a couple of credit points for the second degree, assuming you pass with flying colours the first time around. The credit point claim process does involve approaching both deans of their respective faculties.

Quit using "MD", you - what, 911-dialling, non-hyphenating, funny-spelling - freaks, ... unless that's shorthand for medical doctor. MD is a degree, and people are defined by degrees.
Only, like, Melbourne Uni is gonna start conferring this degree in Australia.
 

purplemonkey

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Similar A&P classes; lol, no .
Well, actually at UTS we do take the same A & P lectures as the med students. Wtf would you know?

I imagine someone who undertook medicine, passed their exams, and transferred/graduated, then re-applied for nursing could probably get some exemptions.
Duh, that's what I just said


Depends where you go
CLEARLY I'm speaking from a UTS nursing perspective, I'm not trying to insinuate that this is the UNIVERSAL ciriculum I was just giving some insight on what nursing is like since the OP was asking the difference.


Wait, what is this? Med, dent, or nursing?
If for non-med, non-dent, well, holy shit.
Its UTS Nursing, the best nursing degree in the southern hemisphere, so yeah its pretty intense. That's why it's FUCKING FANTASTIC.


LLLOL NAW..
Wtf are you saying no to? I'm saying that doctors know bone, muscles and ligaments in a certain detail, but obviously they would need extra education to become a physio because physio's know them in meticulous detail, how to manipulate them, etc. That's why doctors refer pts to physios. Its common sense. And I'm not saying physios are on the same par as doctors, healthcare is interdisciplinary, its about specialised people offering help to other people in a different specialty
 
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Schoey93

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James is a male name?
Males can be nurses. Don't be ridiculous.

To Purple Monkey: I highly doubt that you do the same A & P classes as students of medicine, as UTS doesn't offer a Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery. Are you also sure that UTS offers the best nursing course in the southern hemisphere? Isn't USYD's Master of Nursing better or more prestigious?

I think it has been established now that graduates of medicine and surgery must complete further education and training to LEGALLY work as nurses and physiotherapists. I think we have also established that they would be given RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning) towards a Bachelor of Nursing, Bachelor of Applied Science (Physiotherapy), Master of Nursing, or Master of Applied Science (Physiotherapy). The length of the course: could it be shortened by up to six months or more?

Another question: are there any surgeries nurses can perform independently? What ones?
 

purplemonkey

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Males can be nurses. Don't be ridiculous.

To Purple Monkey: I highly doubt that you do the same A & P classes as students of medicine, as UTS doesn't offer a Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery. Are you also sure that UTS offers the best nursing course in the southern hemisphere? Isn't USYD's Master of Nursing better or more prestigious?

YES we do the same A&P classes. Our lecturers told us. Just because UTS doesn't offer the MBBS degree does not mean the same lecturers don't teach the same thing elsewhere.

It is the best bachelor nursing degree in the southern hemisphere. Obviously a Masters would be more prestigious, but I still think UTS would be better than USYD since it is a leading university in nursing education (though I might be bias!). But it has been said that UTS is the best place to go for a BN.

I do not know of any surgical procedures that nurses can perform independently, as far as I know nurses can work in perioperative care (pre-, intra-, and post-surgical care of pts) but that's about it...
 
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No.

Apples and oranges. GP's and other medical professionals are trained in medicine, should be able to/can handle more than the musculoskeletal system, can prescribe.

Physios are allied health (exercise science, health science) providers, and do whatever they do. AFAIK, physios do not diagnose or offer primary healthcare; instead, they are beings that are educated and specialised such to offer secondary care - help the patient, help the doctor(s).

Perhaps the closest specialisations to physiotherapy for med graduates, post PG1 (and PG2, in NSW), are sports medicine and orthopedics.
Lol, no.

Considering that most Australian (medical and dental) schools with both (graduate-entry) medicine and dentistry hold the same lectures for both medicine and dentistry, you can claim a couple of credit points for the second degree, assuming you pass with flying colours the first time around. The credit point claim process does involve approaching both deans of their respective faculties.

Quit using "MD", you - what, 911-dialling, non-hyphenating, funny-spelling - freaks, ... unless that's shorthand for medical doctor. MD is a degree, and people are defined by degrees.
Only, like, Melbourne Uni is gonna start conferring this degree in Australia.
Dude take your medications lol. May I ask what course you do because you have a very primitive opinion of the state of our health care system?

Umm firstly, I don't think you follow the logic, MD's cant do what dentists do because dentists have a different skill set, just as physios do, hence MD's will not be able to perform the manipulative skills that a physio can.

I am aware that dentists and doctors have had the same lectures but that doesn't mean much. In physio 4/8 of the first year units were created and run by the faculty of medicine. Does that mean anything? no, just that some of the basic knowledge of dents, doct, and physios are similiar just as it would be for pharms and optoms. Its only in 2nd year and onwards the degrees diverge into SKILLS. So NO, not apples and oranges.

You fail to understand that, despite doctors 'and other medical professionals' (what others?) understanding the muskuloskeletal system, almost all of what physios are taught is the muskuloskeletal system. We do 3 years on it and about a year on cardio and neuro. Just as optoms only learn about the eye. Just as pharms only learn about drugs and theyre effects etc. Med school friends of mine have told me they only cover 12 weeks of it. Essentially a semester. MD's aren't taught everything, thats why they specialize.

By "physios do what ever they do" suggests your talking out of your ass. You do realise dentists are also allied health, as are optometrists, pharmacists and physios. Exercise science is not an allied health profession nor is 'health.'

And physios do diagnose, interpret xrays, mri's, ct's etc, consult specialists etc etc That is you DO NOT need a referral to see a physio. you just walk in they diagnose, treat etc Just shows how uneducated you are on this subject. Perhaps post on fields that you are more familiar with, 'whateva that maybe.'

The closest thing to physio would be rheumatology, orthapedics, sports med, and rehab med.

As for MD's getting credit for physio, they would get at best in first year perhaps 3/8 subjects and none for the following 3 years.

Get your facts straight and stop misrepresenting physio.
 

Schoey93

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Purple Monkey, does UTS offer a Master of Nursing through the NMH faculty?
Edit: Yes, they do. Checked on their webpage. That's good. :)
 
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Schoey93

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YES we do the same A&P classes. Our lecturers told us. Just because UTS doesn't offer the MBBS degree does not mean the same lecturers don't teach the same thing elsewhere.

It is the best bachelor nursing degree in the southern hemisphere. Obviously a Masters would be more prestigious, but I still think UTS would be better than USYD since it is a leading university in nursing education (though I might be bias!). But it has been said that UTS is the best place to go for a BN.

I do not know of any surgical procedures that nurses can perform independently, as far as I know nurses can work in perioperative care (pre-, intra-, and post-surgical care of pts) but that's about it...
Do nurses perform circumcisions?
 

Schoey93

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Oh okay. I just wondered because I once saw a male nurse standing over a child's lower abdomen, holding something that looked like a scalpel when I was at Westmead Children's Hospital. Thanks for your answer.

I don't think that I could ever bring myself to perform a circumcision, even if it was for medical reasons and not just for that 'so he can look like Dad' rubbish. I think it's well-known now that circumcision desensitizes the penis.
 
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Wooz

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NO, they are two different roles, you will have to go to back to uni to become an RN, but I am sure you will be given significant recognition of prior learning. Physiotherapy is a completely different ball park all together, like dentistry.

Also it's MBBS is Australia, MD is is MBBS + Research Doctorate in medicine in Australia
 

Schoey93

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NO, they are two different roles, you will have to go to back to uni to become an RN, but I am sure you will be given significant recognition of prior learning. Physiotherapy is a completely different ball park all together, like dentistry.

Also it's MBBS is Australia, MD is is MBBS + Research Doctorate in medicine in Australia
It can be MB alone in Australia also - the University of Newcastle offers a stand-alone Bachelor of Medicine (MB) in conjunction with the University of New England.

MD is an abbreviation of the term Medical Doctor. It does not refer to a university-level qualification, instead it is an abbreviation of the name of a profession. :)

Edit: I was NOT trying to tell you off Wooz. I was being matter of fact about it. And I checked the title of the medical profession in the Aussie Job Guide 2009. You were right, I guess: it's "Medical PRACTITIONER".
 
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Wooz

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It can be MB alone in Australia also - the University of Newcastle offers a stand-alone Bachelor of Medicine (MB) in conjunction with the University of New England.

MD is an abbreviation of the term Medical Doctor. It does not refer to a university-level qualification, instead it is an abbreviation of the name of a profession. :)
Dude read what I said!

Lol in the US it does, not here. You must do a research doctorate at UQ, Umelb, etc as a doctor of medicine (MBBS) to get your MD in Australia. In different countries there are different award titles for a medical degree.

MBBS = BMed (Uncle/UNE Jmp Award), MBchB, etc. Ergh MB (Master of Business), get your terms right!

MD does not equal an MBBS in Australia, but equals an MBBS if it's a US MD.

Dude no offence but your in year 10! FYI: Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Schoey93

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Well, I thought that Australia had adopted a lot of US abbreviations through watching US television. I know what an MBBS is. Are you saying that UNCLE's/UNE's Bachelor of Medicine is equivalent to a Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery? Why doesn't it have the same name then?

I did read your post. I am sorry for misinterpreting the content of it. I thought that you were saying MD, meant Doctor of Medicine, and that you had to have a Doctor of Medicine to become a registered medical doctor. This is obviously not what you meant.

What qualifications does a person need in Australia + New Zealand to become a registered general practitioner or surgeon? Is it an MBBS + 2 years clinical training for a GP and an MBBS + 6 years clinical training for a surgeon?

Thank you.
 

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Bachelor of Medicine = Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery
Its just like Bachelor of Dental Science = Bachelor of Dental Surgery
Unis like to confuse people? Who cares, but just remember the above two lines for health science.
 

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What qualifications does a person need in Australia + New Zealand to become a registered general practitioner or surgeon? Is it an MBBS + 2 years clinical training for a GP and an MBBS + 6 years clinical training for a surgeon?

Thank you.
MBBS > Internship/Residency > Training (Registrar) > Specialist > Consultant

GP: MBBS + Internship (1-2 years) + 3+ years training
Surgeon: MBBS + Internship (1-2 years) + 4-5+ years training

You also have to sit highly compeititive exams to get into the training program, progress exams and at the end to qualify for your fellowship, etc, which may take a few attempts for the colleges with more demand/popularity.
 
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