I know a lot of people who had hoped to get into the finance sector but with employment levels so low a lot of people have missed out. I know a few (incl myself) are thinking of doing a Masters in Finance after our bachelors. However, just thinking about it, I'm wondering how much that extra year will help. I think it's a reasonable assumption that at the end of a 3 year commerce degree, that if you haven't secured a job in the finance area you most likely don't have any internship experience within the field as most intern roles lead to grad offers (maybe not in the current climate but usually). You can't apply for internships at the end of the final undergrad year, because you aren't penultimate even though you intend on another year of masters. So you start your MFin degree in Feb after graduating from your undergrad degree, apply for graduate jobs in March starting next Feb (even though you don't even have 1 semesters worth of results for your MFin degree yet) and have to apply for the graduate streams, which are a lot harder to get into than via an internship - still without any internship experience. To top it off most Masters students marks aren't the greatest (otherwise do Honours). Am I missing something? Or is it normal for MFin students to graduate, then apply for graduate job the following recruitment season, effectively spending 2 years post-grad before commencing work?
Job prospects of an MFin student? (1 Viewer)
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Although I'm a HSC '09 student, I have often scoured these forums on careers in finance in addition to talking with university lecturers that have had industry experience.
Work experience seems to be SUPER crucial.
I have read several times that doing a masters of finance will not really improve your chances of getting a grad job. Similar to doing honours in accounting, the masters of finance seems to be more focused on research. However, I think honours in finance is pretty much the same, just focused on research.
Also, have you considered doing post-grad law? because doing a law degree will actually improve your chances of getting into finance job (or so I have read time and time again).
Does anyone else agree with this?
Work experience seems to be SUPER crucial.
I have read several times that doing a masters of finance will not really improve your chances of getting a grad job. Similar to doing honours in accounting, the masters of finance seems to be more focused on research. However, I think honours in finance is pretty much the same, just focused on research.
Also, have you considered doing post-grad law? because doing a law degree will actually improve your chances of getting into finance job (or so I have read time and time again).
Does anyone else agree with this?
Studentleader
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I do
A MFin will make you look like:
a) a student who isn't good enough to get a grad position
b) a student who is too afraid to leave uni
c) a student who can only do coursework
I'd do honours and make sure you do get a grad position otherwise a grad course in law is an option.
Leave a MBA/MFin/CFA for after you have a few years experience.
Goodluck!
Cookie182
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I agree here, but would stress post-grad law as a very viable option (if you can handle another 3 yrs). This will open your avenues further then what is in my opinion a very narrow field on its own (finance). At the very least, you should be able to get a job after LL.B and this will hold you down some experience (which is highly important) which you can hope to build on and possibly move into finance later.
Or take up a Bsci (maths) to go with your degree...
Studentleader
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I know a law degree can take you places other than practicing as a lawyer, but I would think post-grad law is perceived differently to a combined undergrad degree with law/business/science etc - I can't do 3 years of post grad F/T law study and then apply for IB/Accounting positions.
I thought about doing a math degree again, but another 3-4 years at uni doesn't really appeal to me. I'm just evaluating my Masters options.
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velox
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Hmm masters is not good. Get some work exp first, even if its in a shittier firm than what you envisaged.
Studentleader
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Is an MBA actually even worth doing? The circicullum of the ones I look at are pretty horrible - I'd imagine the only thing I'd get out of it is a small bit of management skills and some networking S:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that's a realistic option when it comes to careers such as trading, structuring, PE etc. Maybe in accounting and law that's a realistic possibility where there are defined tiers of practices (and you can move up/down as you please because the skills are transferable) but most of the finance industry outside of the large banks seem to only higher ex-bankers. Unless you mean start off in a non related role such as a BO position at a BB and go from there? From what I read chances are slim if you go that route.
It just seems like if you fail during your undergrad degree (not literally 'fail' everything, I just mean don't perform to an expected standard) you're screwed out of the banking sector forever, although I doubt every in a FO position at a bank started there as a grad. So where do they come from?
It's definitely worth it from a top 5 program as they enjoy status far beyond the content (not unlike certain cults, cf. Xenu). Australian MBAs on the other hand are devoid of this quality and uniformly worhtless.
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velox
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Look outside the square. Banking is not rocket science, and neither is getting a job.
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Studentleader
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I'd imagine it to be like that.
I'm just wondering if the roles such as director of R&D in a firm would really require it - like would you be expected to be looking at the cost/management side of r&d as opposed to actually doing r&d
Good thing about having a quantitative background is generally I can do anything I want - banking, military, research blah blah.
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Your reply didn't address any of the issues I raised in my original post Mr X
How about you provide some specifics, or directly agree/disagree with what I said and why.
EDIT:
A credible source has told me that getting a job (any professional job) > pursuing an MFin degree. How? Spoke to a banker, who basically reaffirmed what other people have told me. He works directly with some of these hires, 2 of which were previously accountants at big4 and 1 who was a consultant. I think I'll just try land any grad job when recruitment starts next year and go from there.
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velox
Retired
I dont see the point of you posting my name, many people on here know who I am. I'd appreciate if you remove it though.
What I was alluding to is dont stick to run of the mill finance jobs. Look at utilities/energy companies for electricity trading, gas trading. Look at mining companies for shipping trading positions.
Many traders jump from industry to Ibanks.
That is if you want trading.
Otherwise if you want research, go into an industry and work for a bit, then go the MFin and apply to an Associate position in an IBank.
Dont know about PE, however I reckon you could jump from Big4. It is not too hard to get into Big4 (when hiring picks up).
I agree with your 'contact/friend.' Work experience before studying a masters is a good idea. And just remember firms like GSJBW don't consider masters graduates (ie if you do an MCom and have a commerce undergrad, they wont consider you, but will take say a BEng MCom).
People spend their time responding to your posts, not a great idea to be so impolite.
What I was alluding to is dont stick to run of the mill finance jobs. Look at utilities/energy companies for electricity trading, gas trading. Look at mining companies for shipping trading positions.
Many traders jump from industry to Ibanks.
That is if you want trading.
Otherwise if you want research, go into an industry and work for a bit, then go the MFin and apply to an Associate position in an IBank.
Dont know about PE, however I reckon you could jump from Big4. It is not too hard to get into Big4 (when hiring picks up).
I agree with your 'contact/friend.' Work experience before studying a masters is a good idea. And just remember firms like GSJBW don't consider masters graduates (ie if you do an MCom and have a commerce undergrad, they wont consider you, but will take say a BEng MCom).
People spend their time responding to your posts, not a great idea to be so impolite.
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Aww as if the first/last letters of your name mean anything. But out of respect I'll do it. Also, I find the tone and clipped nature of your original reply to be 'impolite', I don't become an e-dick for no reason.
Anyway, w.r.t to electricity/gas trading - I never even knew these positions existed for grads to get into in Australia. I found this thread you made a while back (http://community.boredofstudies.org/462/commerce-business/191307/energy-trading.html) and that didn't provide anything too useful. I also can't find any adverts/firms that deal with this (wtf is 'Sydney hydro'?).
EDIT: Checked Energy Aus website, looked at grad program and what it involves (http://www.energy.com.au/energy/ea.nsf/Content/Careers+Commercial+Graduate+Rotation). Doesn't seem like any trading roles are mentioned, at least not overtly, unless energy pricing ~ energy trading. Seems hit and miss though as you might not even get rotated through that division.
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I can't find one graduate program that hires graduates in any of these capacities - can you please point me in the right direction? What is 'shipping trading'? I can't find any thing on google.
louy
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I wouldnt do a Masters unless its the only option. It would look like that too - meaning if you came to me lookin for a job with Masters etc and no experience, it looks like you only done the Masters cos you couldnt get a job.
Look for Big 4 experience. That will open doors. Do a CPA or ACCA professional qualification
Look for Big 4 experience. That will open doors. Do a CPA or ACCA professional qualification
I know a CA qualification + a few years in auditing can enable you to jump into IB/research etc but I'm looking at more markets/funds management orientated roles like trading or portfolio analysis. I was looking at doing an MFIN as a way to further my studies, get better marks and apply to these positions as a graduate because I thought there was no 'other' job I could do in the mean while to get relevant/attractive experience.
Velox says there are, yet I can't find any of the jobs he mentioned advertised, or advertised to graduates.
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louy
Member
CA at big four, plus experience.
Jump over to Ibank doing control and operations.
Then do your CFA
Thats probably how I would do it
Jump over to Ibank doing control and operations.
Then do your CFA
Thats probably how I would do it