Women in the Workplace - Pay Equity? (2 Viewers)

[Gosford]

But are women working equal jobs if they work less overtime and take longer holidays?

I suppose to know for sure you would have to look into it quite a bit...something I'm too lazy to do


Oh and as a young person (now 2nd year uni), its harder to find a part time crappy job than a female...I whinge a bit but I know that it will eventually balance out (at the very least) (whether fair or not) when I complete my degree.
My favourite job hunting moment would be applying for a job at a Bakery- cashier, on the central coast...some Asian guy said- sorry girls only!
Mind you I scored a job at a Kids Entertainment centre- who would have thought?

Sorry for going offtopic

 

[Riet]

Hours worked is just a correlate for value-added to the business. A pretty good one for many different types of work but not as useful for professional sports.

IMO if a female tennis player can add the same amount of value to the business that a male player does then they should be paid the same (and more if more). Regardless of the number of sets that they play.

A better measure of value-added would be the number of TV viewers who watch the games.

Men's tennis attracts far more viewers.

 

[katie tully]

Equal work, equal pay imo. But I think we have to be careful when we examine the statistics relating to pay for the same jobs.

If you look at the broad picture and see that, on average, men get paid more than women, you have to look at the jobs women take.

They're less likely to get paid bonuses and commissions. Why? Because women are less likely to take up jobs that offer bonuses or commissions.

Then there is the issue of taking time out for kids, which can obviously hamper ones ability to hackle for a promotion or progress their career (or it leads to a higher rate of part time/casual work by females, thus reducing earning capacity again). IMO tbh, I think "maternity leave" should be gender neutral, and if a woman has a baby but wants to go back to work, but the father wants to stay home, then they should be awarded the same rights as females in this regard. (not that i necessarily agree with maternity leave).

Women's pay and employment patterns - NSW Office of Industrial Relations

This link is a bit of a wank imo because a lot of it is just 'LOL WOMEN ARENT IN UNIONS THUS GET PAID SHIT" which I don't think is the issue ...

Also I'm trying to find it, but a few months ago there was something released about women being less aggressive than men when it comes to seeking promotions...

 

[katie tully]

Men's tennis attracts far more viewers.

I've had this argument before (with my mum).

I think that the level of effort is relative. For men, 5 sets is relative to their fitness. For women, 3 sets is relative to their fitness. Men's tennis attracts more viewers because it is far more entertaining (as are most male sports), but I think the discrepancy in winnings is a little too large.

I think the fact that the difference in award pay is so large is a slap in the face and devalues the efforts by the female tennis players. Certainly, their game is not equal to mens comparatively, but relatively (to their sex), I think their performance is equal.

If that makes sense.

 

[Gosford]

They're less likely to get paid bonuses and commissions. Why? Because women are less likely to take up jobs that offer bonuses or commissions.

hmmm
i might have to check out these studies
I would have thought the logical thing to do would be to compare men and women in the same line of work...hence both are applicable to bonuses + commissions!

Your point about children etc. is valid, it would obviously hinder a women's career...not that they mind! (family>>>work)
But I would ahve thought they might have considered this in studies...

 

[katie tully]

hmmm
i might have to check out these studies
I would have thought the logical thing to do would be to compare men and women in the same line of work...hence both are applicable to bonuses + commissions!

Your point about children etc. is valid, it would obviously hinder a women's career...not that they mind! (family>>>work)
But I would ahve thought they might have considered this in studies...

Not really, because if you look at the specific purpose of some studies, it's hard to find one without bias.

So one comissioned by a women's activist movement might ignore the outliers, such as the number of women in these positions, the types of jobs women are in, etc.

And it does come down to the jobs women are in. It's hard to find female CEO's of big companies, but it's easy to find women in managerial nursing positions.

 

[Gosford]

I've had this argument before (with my mum).

I think that the level of effort is relative. For men, 5 sets is relative to their fitness. For women, 3 sets is relative to their fitness. Men's tennis attracts more viewers because it is far more entertaining (as are most male sports), but I think the discrepancy in winnings is a little too large.

I think the fact that the difference in award pay is so large is a slap in the face and devalues the efforts by the female tennis players. Certainly, Certainly, their game is not equal to mens comparatively, but relatively (to their sex), I think their performance is equal.

If that makes sense.

Ok I agree that it is fitness related
whilst I have said I would love to see Women play 5 sets- thats to show them the difference
Realistically their level of performance would not be able to be maintained for 5 sets...thats the logistics behind it- which is fair enough


Your second point...hmmm
check many sports...
eg. Football (soccer) my great love
I have watched women's football, and admittingly you could say they are "their game is not equal to mens comparatively, but relatively (to their sex), I think their performance is equal."
And rest assured their pay disparity is far worse than it used to be in tennis!

Mind you IMO the difference between sexes in Tennis is not as significant in other sports, but do you get my point?

 

[Gosford]

And it does come down to the jobs women are in. It's hard to find female CEO's of big companies, but it's easy to find women in managerial nursing positions.

so what you want to compare nurses to doctors?
You can only compare like to like!
The most important thing in conducting studies is to removes as many variables as possible. Unfortunately in society it is impossible to only have one variable (ie. sex)- as some variables cant be discriminated from

thats my opinion on whether for same jobs


for same stages of career I'll admit I am perhaps a bit ideallistic- it would be a harder study to conduct!

 

[whatashotbyseve]

Problem with womens tennis is its good players cannot be marketed off the field. The Williams sisters, Safina, etc are ugly. The attractive players rarely make the top 10. In grand slams, some people will go for the tennis, and some will go for a day out. The latter don't care about tennis, so they want to see someone hot. Hence why Wimbledon admitted putting on some hot random in centre court during the first week. It maximises their revenue.

In mens tennis, idk, they are more attractive to both men (for their ability) and women (for their looks)? Federer, Nadal, Roddick, Djokovic are not what you would term ugly. Hence they are easier to market to the public.

In terms of equal pay, prizemoney is probably a small component of their expenses when you think about it. At the elite level, players don't need the money, its all about prestige in grand slams, so if they reduced the pay back to 60% of mens pay (for 3/5 sets vs men), the quality of field would not drop. Imo it is a ego-stroking move that promotes them as supportive of women. Which may have some intangible brand equity that is worth more than the couple of hundred thousand it cost them for equal pay.

 

[katie tully]

Are you kidding? The Williams Sisters make millions upon millions of dollars in sponsorship deals, regardless of the fact they both look like apes on steroids.

 

[whatashotbyseve]

I am talking in terms of looks. I am sure most of their sponsorship is performance related. Nike etc.

 

[Gosford]

Problem with womens tennis is its good players cannot be marketed off the field. The Williams sisters, Safina, etc are ugly. The attractive players rarely make the top 10. In grand slams, some people will go for the tennis, and some will go for a day out. The latter don't care about tennis, so they want to see someone hot. Hence why Wimbledon admitted putting on some hot random in centre court during the first week. It maximises their revenue.

In mens tennis, idk, they are more attractive to both men (for their ability) and women (for their looks)? Federer, Nadal, Roddick, Djokovic are not what you would term ugly. Hence they are easier to market to the public.

In terms of equal pay, prizemoney is probably a small component of their expenses when you think about it. At the elite level, players don't need the money, its all about prestige in grand slams, so if they reduced the pay back to 60% of mens pay (for 3/5 sets vs men), the quality of field would not drop. Imo it is a ego-stroking move that promotes them as supportive of women. Which may have some intangible brand equity that is worth more than the couple of hundred thousand it cost them for equal pay.

good post
but Katie Tully is right, Williams sisters are worth heaps (i dont know why)- but still i dont think their potential is as good as Sharapova etc.

Good point on the brand equity...its shut everyone up- i remember this debate went on for a couple of years.
Just what gets me is the falsehood- I am sceptical that Grand Slam Head Honcho's actually believe that women deserve equal pay!

 

[Gosford]

you do know that Serena has her own fashion brand...
Now i am a straight 19 year old male, whose fashion style consists of 3/4 length shorts and a football jersey (madrid, arsenal or Central Coast Mariners usually)- but I have to really question her 'style' of fashion- but hey she is making money off it