Significance of School sending marks to BOS (1 Viewer)

[clintmyster]

Just wondering, what is the significance of schools sending marks to BOS? I heard last year or the year before, 10 band 6's were sent to the BOS but we only received 6 after the HSC results were released. Does the schools marks aid in the scaling and moderating process or something?

 

[Timothy.Siu]

Just wondering, what is the significance of schools sending marks to BOS? I heard last year or the year before, 10 band 6's were sent to the BOS but we only received 6 after the HSC results were released. Does the schools marks aid in the scaling and moderating process or something?

yeah of course that will happen, thats just your school internal marks, for maths, we would've sent in <5 band 6's and we got 80ish band 6's.

and yes they help in the aligning.

 

[cem]

Just wondering, what is the significance of schools sending marks to BOS? I heard last year or the year before, 10 band 6's were sent to the BOS but we only received 6 after the HSC results were released. Does the schools marks aid in the scaling and moderating process or something?

The school sends assessment marks which are moderated by the BOS to the exam marks for this exact reason.

It sounds like the school overestimated the quality of the students.

When they did the exam fewer students in the cohort gained marks in the 90s thus brining down the assessed and final marks of some students.

The marks the school sends in is not actually used by the way. The BOS uses the ranks and the relative gaps and not the actual marks.

e.g. School A sends in a range of marks for a class of 20 students from 50 - 65 and School B sends in a range of marks for a class also of 20 students from 70 - 95 the BOS has to find a way to ensure that these two schools aren't marking either too hard or too easy. So they moderate.

Now let's assume that both these schools get a range on the exam from 60 - 85 school A's assessment marks will be moderated up to reflect the exam range while school B's assessment marks will come down to reflect the exam marks and thus both schools will ended up being treated the same. As the only true comparison is the external exam it is the external exam that is used to moderate the assessment marks submitted by the schools.

 

[clintmyster]

The stickied Explanation of HSC Marks (Moderating) thread should explain the process to you.

I had read this a while back but forgot all about it haha.

Thanks guys

 

[Dragonmaster262]

The school sends assessment marks which are moderated by the BOS to the exam marks for this exact reason.

It sounds like the school overestimated the quality of the students.

When they did the exam fewer students in the cohort gained marks in the 90s thus brining down the assessed and final marks of some students.

The marks the school sends in is not actually used by the way. The BOS uses the ranks and the relative gaps and not the actual marks.

e.g. School A sends in a range of marks for a class of 20 students from 50 - 65 and School B sends in a range of marks for a class also of 20 students from 70 - 95 the BOS has to find a way to ensure that these two schools aren't marking either too hard or too easy. So they moderate.

Now let's assume that both these schools get a range on the exam from 60 - 85 school A's assessment marks will be moderated up to reflect the exam range while school B's assessment marks will come down to reflect the exam marks and thus both schools will ended up being treated the same. As the only true comparison is the external exam it is the external exam that is used to moderate the assessment marks submitted by the schools.

No offense but I believe that this process is a bit unfair. For example, if you're a bright student who goes to a low ranked school then your school might overestimate your performance, and hence you will not achieve the results that you want in the HSC. That has happened to a number of kids in my school.

 

[cem]

No offense but I believe that this process is a bit unfair. For example, if you're a bright student who goes to a low ranked school then your school might overestimate your performance, and hence you will not achieve the results that you want in the HSC. That has happened to a number of kids in my school.

If your exam mark is high then you won't be affected.

It is perfectly fair. Students who do well at a 'low-ranked' school should be gaining the highest exam marks from their school and these exam marks are used as the top mark for the range of marks.

e.g.

Student A - rank 1 - school mark 98 - exam mark 96 - moderated mark - 96

Student B - rank 2 - school mark 94 - exam mark 96 - moderated mark - 94

Student C - rank 3 - school mark 66 - exam mark 67 - moderated mark - 68

Student D - rank 4 - school mark 54 - exam mark 55 - moderated mark - 56

Student C - rank 5 - school mark 36 - exam mark 39 - moderated mark - 39


As the top mark and the bottom mark have been set by the exam marks the next step is to allocate the rest of the exam marks to reflect the rank AND gap.

Total exam marks to be distributed - 218.

Student B would get probably 95 or 94 - say 94 - keeping the GAP at 2 marks. Student C is 28 marks away and that would be reflected with a moderated mark of 70 and Student D is a further 12 marks away but also 18 marks ahead of 5th so the moderated mark would be close to 54.

The total number of marks awarded to the class is the same as the total number of marks awarded in the moderated process. The gaps have been maintained.

The only way a 'good' student is a poorly performing school gets a bad moderated assessment mark is when the school has over estimated how good that student is but the exam shows that the student isn't as good as the school thought. That isn't the student being scaled down due to a poorly ranked school but more the teacher stuffing up the assessment. The system is designed to stop teachers over estimating students. Without moderation teachers would simply send all students in with a mark of 100 and equal 1st.

Remember that the ranking of the school has absolutely NO influence of the marks awarded to the students as the schools are ranked AFTER the marks are done not before.

 

[Dragonmaster262]

If your exam mark is high then you won't be affected.

It is perfectly fair. Students who do well at a 'low-ranked' school should be gaining the highest exam marks from their school and these exam marks are used as the top mark for the range of marks.

e.g.

Student A - rank 1 - school mark 98 - exam mark 96 - moderated mark - 96

Student B - rank 2 - school mark 94 - exam mark 96 - moderated mark - 94

Student C - rank 3 - school mark 66 - exam mark 67 - moderated mark - 68

Student D - rank 4 - school mark 54 - exam mark 55 - moderated mark - 56

Student C - rank 5 - school mark 36 - exam mark 39 - moderated mark - 39


As the top mark and the bottom mark have been set by the exam marks the next step is to allocate the rest of the exam marks to reflect the rank AND gap.

Total exam marks to be distributed - 218.

Student B would get probably 95 or 94 - say 94 - keeping the GAP at 2 marks. Student C is 28 marks away and that would be reflected with a moderated mark of 70 and Student D is a further 12 marks away but also 18 marks ahead of 5th so the moderated mark would be close to 54.

The total number of marks awarded to the class is the same as the total number of marks awarded in the moderated process. The gaps have been maintained.

The only way a 'good' student is a poorly performing school gets a bad moderated assessment mark is when the school has over estimated how good that student is but the exam shows that the student isn't as good as the school thought. That isn't the student being scaled down due to a poorly ranked school but more the teacher stuffing up the assessment. The system is designed to stop teachers over estimating students. Without moderation teachers would simply send all students in with a mark of 100 and equal 1st.

Remember that the ranking of the school has absolutely NO influence of the marks awarded to the students as the schools are ranked AFTER the marks are done not before.

Umm....every year there are a bunch of kids in my school who end up getting marks which they shouldn't be getting. For example one girl last year averaged 98% in Biology but ended up with 86% in the exam. She also averaged around 92% in Physics but ended up with 81% in her exam. All the teachers were shocked. The teachers keep saying that her cohort's poor performance dragged her mark down despite the fact that she was ranked first. Incidents like this have happened for like a decade at my school. I reckon that's totally wrong though. In my opinion the teachers are just stuffing up and not teaching properly. that's a disadvantage at being at a low ranked school. You have a lot of unreliable teachers and its hard getting a really high mark despite how well you do at school. Under these circumstances the moderation system becomes a bit unfair. What do you think of that Cem?

 

[Tully B.]

I always forget how the system works until I find one of these threads, every couple of weeks like clockwork, read it, and understand again.

 

[cem]

Umm....every year there are a bunch of kids in my school who end up getting marks which they shouldn't be getting. For example one girl last year averaged 98% in Biology but ended up with 86% in the exam. She also averaged around 92% in Physics but ended up with 81% in her exam. All the teachers were shocked. The teachers keep saying that her cohort's poor performance dragged her mark down despite the fact that she was ranked first. Incidents like this have happened for like a decade at my school. I reckon that's totally wrong though. In my opinion the teachers are just stuffing up and not teaching properly. that's a disadvantage at being at a low ranked school. You have a lot of unreliable teachers and its hard getting a really high mark despite how well you do at school. Under these circumstances the moderation system becomes a bit unfair. What do you think of that Cem?

If the students concerned are coming first then the student isn't performing as well as the teachers are indicating and the school should be investigating what their teachers are doing wrong.

The system is fair as the teachers are overestimating and the BOS is using the evidence presented by the students on the common test.

Would it be fair to say to students who are getting 98 on the exam that they are to be given the same mark as someone who only got 84 because the school overestimated the student's ability?

Using the common exam as the benchmark is the only truly fair way to do things.

 

[Dragonmaster262]

If the students concerned are coming first then the student isn't performing as well as the teachers are indicating and the school should be investigating what their teachers are doing wrong.

The system is fair as the teachers are overestimating and the BOS is using the evidence presented by the students on the common test.

Would it be fair to say to students who are getting 98 on the exam that they are to be given the same mark as someone who only got 84 because the school overestimated the student's ability?

Using the common exam as the benchmark is the only truly fair way to do things.

What your saying is true but the thing is that it's like impossible to achieve a really high mark at some low ranked school since the teachers don't know what they're doing. I mean suppose you're a really bright student and you want 95%+. You do well in all of your assessment tasks and do everything that the teacher tells you yet there ends up being a 10% difference between the internal and external mark. That's very depressing and shocking, especially if you needed a good mark to get a high ATAR for your course.

The teachers just say it's because of the whole 'one kid does bad and drags the whole classes' mark down theory'. Seriously, does the Board of Studies really bother to educate teachers about their system? I got this teacher at my school who has set HSC Exam questions in the past. He believes in the most ludicrous notions about the HSC system. He believes the whole 'one kid does bad and drags the whole classes' mark down theory' and he thinks that scaling/aligning/moderating are the same thing. All the science teachers believe him because he has set HSC Exam questions in the past. Funny that even a guy who has worked for the Board of Studies doesn't have a clue of how their system works. This teacher also happens to be the Science Head teacher and he has the most wackiest ideas ever. He's trying to evict kids from science classes because they might 'drag' everyone's mark down.

What advice would you give Cem to a kid like me, who happens to go to a school full of unreliable teachers yet hopes to achieve a mark of 95%+ in all three sciences? I mean kids before me have put in their full effort and worked hard to achieve Band 6s but have only ended up with low Band 5s. Teahcers are too arrogant to blame it on themselves. It's hard to admit it but I believe that under these specific circumstances the HSC moderation system does get a bit unfair.

 

[cem]

What your saying is true but the thing is that it's like impossible to achieve a really high mark at some low ranked school since the teachers don't know what they're doing. I mean suppose you're a really bright student and you want 95%+. You do well in all of your assessment tasks and do everything that the teacher tells you yet there ends up being a 10% difference between the internal and external mark. That's very depressing and shocking, especially if you needed a good mark to get a high ATAR for your course.

The teachers just say it's because of the whole 'one kid does bad and drags the whole classes' mark down theory'. Seriously, does the Board of Studies really bother to educate teachers about their system? I got this teacher at my school who has set HSC Exam questions in the past. He believes in the most ludicrous notions about the HSC system. He believes the whole 'one kid does bad and drags the whole classes' mark down theory' and he thinks that scaling/aligning/moderating are the same thing. All the science teachers believe him because he has set HSC Exam questions in the past. Funny that even a guy who has worked for the Board of Studies doesn't have a clue of how their system works. This teacher also happens to be the Science Head teacher and he has the most wackiest ideas ever. He's trying to evict kids from science classes because they might 'drag' everyone's mark down.

What advice would you give Cem to a kid like me, who happens to go to a school full of unreliable teachers yet hopes to achieve a mark of 95%+ in all three sciences? I mean kids before me have put in their full effort and worked hard to achieve Band 6s but have only ended up with low Band 5s. Teahcers are too arrogant to blame it on themselves. It's hard to admit it but I believe that under these specific circumstances the HSC moderation system does get a bit unfair.

Ensure that your notes etc are following the dot points of the syllabus, do past papers for which answers are available e.g. do the 2001 and 2002 papers and check your answer against the standards packages, look at study guides and the responses they give you.

All the exam setters in Modern History are also markers and have been instructed in the entire system so either the sciences do things differently or your teacher simply doesn't understand.

When you say you go to a low ranking school - how low is it?

 

[Dragonmaster262]

Ensure that your notes etc are following the dot points of the syllabus, do past papers for which answers are available e.g. do the 2001 and 2002 papers and check your answer against the standards packages, look at study guides and the responses they give you.

All the exam setters in Modern History are also markers and have been instructed in the entire system so either the sciences do things differently or your teacher simply doesn't understand.

When you say you go to a low ranking school - how low is it?

Like the bottom 300.

I'm don't think it's the dot points that are not being assessed, I think it's the outcomes.

 

[clintmyster]

Dragonmaster, you don't necessarily even need teachers. When you do your HSC you'l realise how much more you actually do at home as opposed to school. Whilst you may have questions, if you don't have a strong cohort, you can always post here, ask friends in better schools or get a tutor to get your questions answered. Even people in better schools can have very bad teachers. It happens in our school all the time. We have many great chemistry teachers but our physics teachers are somewhat dodgey and nowhere near as reliable. Same goes with our english department, they are very slow in marking and aren't as committed as most to addressing specific concerns of students.

 

[Dragonmaster262]

Dragonmaster, you don't necessarily even need teachers. When you do your HSC you'l realise how much more you actually do at home as opposed to school. Whilst you may have questions, if you don't have a strong cohort, you can always post here, ask friends in better schools or get a tutor to get your questions answered. Even people in better schools can have very bad teachers. It happens in our school all the time. We have many great chemistry teachers but our physics teachers are somewhat dodgey and nowhere near as reliable. Same goes with our english department, they are very slow in marking and aren't as committed as most to addressing specific concerns of students.

Do you think it is possible to achieve a Band 6 with no help from your teacher whatsoever?

 

[ninetypercent]

yes; it is possible.