Does God exist? (14 Viewers)

[Tumnus]

Name one thing, spefically prophesied, that isn't so general it could be applied to a whole range of situations and societies.

.

Study up on the prophesy concerning Alexander the Great's conquest of Tyrus. You will find it is quite specific.

And I think a world where I shit gold would be dandy, but the idea that the whole world could adhere unfailing to a set of ten inviolable rules at all times would require the removal of all free will and man would no longer be what we understand it currently means to be human.

The capacity, and reality of the ability and actuality of individuals defying the commandments is essential. If everyone followed the commandments ceaselessly and effortlessly, they would be meaningless. And life would be without necessary passion and drama.

I never said that it would be forced. of course it could not be adhered to all the time - yet out of free will it would remove a lot of the evil currently in the world.

 

[katie tully]

I'm reading a book about the history of Christianity.

Will dot point findings later, but basically it's just a bunch of Greek, Roman and Egyptian bishops arguing with each other for a few hundred years.

 

[Cookie182]

Maybe you should study the Bible in order to come to the conclusion if god is great or not?
What would be wrong with a world that simply kept the ten commandments (even if not the one about sabbath observance?) I'd say it would be very pleasant, extremely pleasant.

Meh, they are so generalised that the many which do relate to humans in specifics, have just came from biology. As has been previously explained, killing and violation of anothers resources (stealing) goes against the survival and replication value of species so we slowly developed these instincts without 'God'. In fact, what relevance at all do these three commandments have to running a good society-

I am the Lord your God

You shall have no other gods before me

You shall not make for yourself an idol (In other words, remember me GOD, not yourself)

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

Ok

So there are 5 commandments wasted on mindless boasting.

The only way these can be useful is if you interpret God as your own consciousness. Sure, it doesn’t perfectly translate, but makes more sense then worshipping an unknown mass of energy??

Also, these “commandments’ are really talked up. I could have written the humanistic ones as a 7 old with no exposure to any religious teachings. We honour our parents instinctively as a child because they provide for us and we bond with them etc. This generalist notion of love is found within all religions, i.e. I’m reading a list of Buddhist Sutra’s which promote the idea of Filial piety (honour your parents) and Buddhism also advocates “love your neighbour” etc

Christianity is nothing original.

Atheists follow the only important "commandments" everyday with out your weak and useless guidance.

 

[gibbo153]

hmm thiests take the lead.

a more interesting poll would be "have you actually changed your opinion on the existence of God due to the loss of an argument with someone of the opposite opinion"


potentially zero on both sides.

 

[Graney]

Study up on the prophesy concerning Alexander the Great's conquest of Tyrus. You will find it is quite specific.

It's quite specific when Ezekiel says tyre would never be rebuilt.

And yet, here stands modern development on the exact site of the old city

The UK's Leading Atheist Page - Miracles

I never said that it would be forced. of course it could not be adhered to all the time - yet out of free will it would remove a lot of the evil currently in the world.

They're okay I guess, but they're hardly inspired or unique, I can't think of a mainstream religion that condones killling, stealing etc... And secular ethics and philosophers agree with these principles.

This is not a case for the values presented by the abrahamic god to be followed. If you're going to follow the ten commandments, are you going to follow advice to stone adulterers and the other vicious parts of the old testament?

 

[Cookie182]

hmm thiests take the lead.

a more interesting poll would be "have you actually changed your opinion on the existence of God due to the loss of an argument with someone of the opposite opinion"


potentially zero on both sides.

I'll admit it. I was a Catholic. Why? Because that is what my parents christened me as.

I think it was like in early high school I started questioning, but I remember my physics teacher saying one day- what evidence etc do you feel supports your argument?

I went hmm

0

Heres the evidence which at least conclusively supports the irrelevance of a God


ahh k.

Thanks.

 

[Iron]

Meh, they are so generalised that the many which do relate to humans in specifics, have just came from biology. As has been previously explained, killing and violation of anothers resources (stealing) goes against the survival and replication value of species so we slowly developed these instincts without 'God'. In fact, what relevance at all do these three commandments have to running a good society-

I am the Lord your God

You shall have no other gods before me

You shall not make for yourself an idol (In other words, remember me GOD, not yourself)

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

Ok

So there are 5 commandments wasted on mindless boasting.

The only way these can be useful is if you interpret God as your own consciousness. Sure, it doesn’t perfectly translate, but makes more sense then worshipping an unknown mass of energy??

Also, these “commandments’ are really talked up. I could have written the humanistic ones as a 7 old with no exposure to any religious teachings. We honour our parents instinctively as a child because they provide for us and we bond with them etc. This generalist notion of love is found within all religions, i.e. I’m reading a list of Buddhist Sutra’s which promote the idea of Filial piety (honour your parents) and Buddhism also advocates “love your neighbour” etc

Christianity is nothing original.

Atheists follow the only important "commandments" everyday with out your weak and useless guidance.

The first commandment embraces faith, hope and charity. When we say 'God' we confess a constant, unchageable being, always the same, faithful and just, without any evil. If follows that we must necessarily accept his words and have complete faith in him and acknowledge his authority.

Without this faith in him, we are doomed. Without this hope in him, we lapse into despair and presumption about our own greatness. Without accepting His charity towards us, wehave no obligation to love him or anything in his creation.

The second part of the first commandment is against perverse excess of religion (superstition, idolatry, magic, narcissism etc). It is a strong affirmation that our faith should be grounded in reason and Truth.

ETC
PLS DELETE KWAY

 

[Cookie182]

The first commandment embraces faith, hope and charity. When we say 'God' we confess a constant, unchageable being, always the same, faithful and just, without any evil. If follows that we must necessarily accept his words and have complete faith in him and acknowledge his authority.

Without this faith in him, we are doomed. Without this hope in him, we lapse into despair and presumption about our own greatness. Without accepting His charity towards us, wehave no obligation to love him or anything in his creation.

The second part of the first commandment is against perverse excess of religion (superstition, idolatry, magic, narcissism etc). It is a strong affirmation that our faith should be grounded in reason and Truth.

ETC
PLS DELETE KWAY

See I would respectfully disagree. Faith is not something I would suggest as being positive for man. Faith is believe in something without evidence; it is irrational and useless. Faith won't get you through an exam if you have not studied. It won't help you sustain a life if you haven't done first aid. It is not something I see as helpful for the human race to embrace at all and its insulting to see you say "faith grounded in reason and truth" as that is illogical.

The more helpful reading (my interpretation) would be to think of God as yourself- respect your own body, your own mind, your consciousness (as that's it) and love yourself primarily (not in a superficial way, but in a positive, affirming way) in which allows you to lead the happiest life you can and spread love to others. Nothing destructive in this at all.

I would then go on to say yes- supersition is ridiculous and should be frowned upon. The exact reason I don't believe in "demon" spirits, virgin births, resurrections, eternal damnation of souls, "witchcraft", clairvoyancy, palm-reading, astrology, the list of pseudo-science continues...

 

[Iron]

See I would respectfully disagree. Faith is not something I would suggest as being positive for man. Faith is believe in something without evidence; it is irrational and useless. Faith won't get you through an exam if you have not studied. It won't help you sustain a life if you haven't done first aid. It is not something I see as helpful for the human race to embrace at all and its insulting to see you say "faith grounded in reason and truth" as that is illogical.

The more helpful reading (my interpretation) would be to think of God as yourself- respect your own body, your own mind, your consciousness (as that's it) and love yourself primarily (not in a superficial way, but in a positive, affirming way) in which allows you to lead the happiest life you can and spread love to others. Nothing destructive in this at all.

I would then go on to say yes- supersition is ridiculous and should be frowned upon. The exact reason I don't believe in "demon" spirits, virgin births, resurrections, eternal damnation of souls, "witchcraft", clairvoyancy, palm-reading, astrology, the list of pseudo-science continues...

Viewing yourself as God inevitably leads to disaster. Rather than helping you 'spread the love to others', it fills a man with hate for everyone else and a feeling of cold conquest towards the few who love him. It stimulates a lethal cocktail of fear and suspicion which always ends in evil. It is the source of all the world's problems. Indeed, it was vanity which prompted Eve to listen to the serpent and eat the apple - the lie that it would make her a God.

As Christ showed man, the only way to live your life is to totally forget about yourself, with all your foolish and selfish desires, and fully devote yourself to others - even to the point of laying down your life. This is the Truth and vital meaning which you fail to grasp, heathen.
If this is the quality of your critique, I feel no need to carry on to your second point.

 

[Cookie182]

Viewing yourself as God inevitably leads to disaster. Rather than helping you 'spread the love to others', it fills a man with hate for everyone else and a feeling of cold conquest towards the few who love him. It stimulates a lethal cocktail of fear and suspicion which always ends in evil. It is the source of all the world's problems. Indeed, it was vanity which prompted Eve to listen to the serpent and eat the apple - the lie that it would make her a God herself.

If this is the quality of your critique, I feel no need to carry on to your second point.

Easy way out? lol

Why because I highlight just how ridiculous the claims made by religion are.

Also, I think its the inverse. If we hold our very consciousness to a higher power, it is wars over which higher power is correct that is the source of all humanities problems- the root of all evil. Religion in the literal sense is an opression of everything it means to be human- to think freely, to question, to love willingly (I mean, we don't really have a choice to love God- assuming he is real, the wager is set pretty high- burn in flames otherwise!!!!)

Also your first sentence, how does having strong belief in yourself- in this one life, this wodnerful chance in time that you came to be, act as "destructive"? I see "giving yourself to God" as a destructive force, a notion of slavery, discredit to our fellow man. Religious folk also scare me- I've watched videos of the religious right- if they didn't believe in God they profess that they would act immorally! You need a scripture and the selfish thought of "eternal paradise" to stop you stealing or killing your fellow man?

Theists also love the illogical "you can't prove it wrong" argument. What if I suggested right now that "the Matrix" is 100 percent correct? This is virtual reality, we are all biolgical batteries plugged into a programmed world in order to keep machines running through our electrical impulses. Ridiculous or not? I mean, you can't prove it wrong. How can you have so much "faith" that this is actually even reality then? Perhaps Christ was a program??

That's why I like to stick to what we can prove with material evidence and disregard the non-sense.

 

[Jaylee42003]

People know God is there. Take my cousin for example, lets call her Amelia.
Amelia is four years old and attended my brothers baptism, i took her up to the Priest to receive a blessing. A concept that she did not understand at all "Is it [the blessing] in your pocket? It's in your hands isn't it?"
However she did ask me who is Jesus? She told me that she knew Jesus was already was a good person who lots of people liked and came to this place every week. She told me he was a good person. Coming from a person who has no external religious influences, coming from a family who does not regularly attend church nor have any real belief in God or Jesus, yet here she was telling me that he was a good person that everyone knew.
Just something to think about. Sorry if it made no sense but there was a point in there somewhere.

This is very true, for young children. Young children are innocent so hence they can see angels.
I'll share my little story.
I knew somebody from my old church who was dying in hospital. His family was all around him, praying with him until died.
And one of the little girls (she was about 4) asked her mum who 'all the people' were. Her mum was and asked her 'what people?'. The little girl said that she could see a lot of people in the room, over 20, when their was only 5 or so.
I mean, you can say 'oh yeh she made that up' and whatever. But honestly, this little girl could see 'people' (angels). I doubt she'd have made that up. Believe what you want to believe. But I'm believing the child.

 

[Jaylee42003]

This is very true, for young children. Young children are innocent so hence they can see angels.
I'll share my little story.
I knew somebody from my old church who was dying in hospital. His family was all around him, praying with him until died.
And one of the little girls (she was about 4) asked her mum who 'all the people' were. Her mum was and asked her 'what people?'. The little girl said that she could see a lot of people in the room, over 20, when their was only 5 or so.
I mean, you can say 'oh yeh she made that up' and whatever. But honestly, this little girl could see 'people' (angels). I doubt she'd have made that up. Believe what you want to believe. But I'm believing the child.

C.S. Lewis also believed that young children were innocent and so could see all things holy...
He weaved that belief into his Narnia series, with Lucy. In the Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, Lucy (the youngest) could see Aslan (metaphor for God), but none of the other, older children could see him.

 

[Cookie182]

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

Seneca the Younger 4 b.c.- 65 a.d

There were some thinkers, even back then.

 

[Iron]

Easy way out? lol

Why because I highlight just how ridiculous the claims made by religion are.

Also, I think its the inverse. If we hold our very consciousness to a higher power, it is wars over which higher power is correct that is the source of all humanities problems- the root of all evil. Religion in the literal sense is an opression of everything it means to be human- to think freely, to question, to love willingly (I mean, we don't really have a choice to love God- assuming he is real, the wager is set pretty high- burn in flames otherwise!!!!)

Also your first sentence, how does having strong belief in yourself- in this one life, this wodnerful chance in time that you came to be, act as "destructive"? I see "giving yourself to God" as a destructive force, a notion of slavery, discredit to our fellow man. Religious folk also scare me- I've watched videos of the religious right- if they didn't believe in God they profess that they would act immorally! You need a scripture and the selfish thought of "eternal paradise" to stop you stealing or killing your fellow man?

Theists also love the illogical "you can't prove it wrong" argument. What if I suggested right now that "the Matrix" is 100 percent correct? This is virtual reality, we are all biolgical batteries plugged into a programmed world in order to keep machines running through our electrical impulses. Ridiculous or not? I mean, you can't prove it wrong. How can you have so much "faith" that this is actually even reality then? Perhaps Christ was a program??

That's why I like to stick to what we can provce with material evidence and disregard the non-sense.

Har sir! Notice, all, the subtle change in tone from Christianophobia to a broadside into the fog against 'religion'. Christ commands us, universally, to Love! To show mercy! To be meek! TO make peace! What do you command? Love yourself! This is the natural order, you say, and from this all else will take care of itself. As if a history had never been told! As if a life had not been lived or observed! You fool! You foolish fool! You call us slaves to a God, but this masks the real chains that you have to the evil that has blinded you to true salvation. As if Christians are motivated by greed rather than Love to serve their creator! As if the creator would show mercy to those who superficially follow him for an uncertain reward! And he has the hide to call us selfish!

You are a cold and heartless tyrant. You boast about your ignorance about love. Ha! What is that? you say. What is it that I dont have myself? Love is God, my friend. It is not a reason, it is a state. You will never come back to the father until you learn to love others as much as you so proudly love yourself.

Iron out

 

[Jaylee42003]

Lol, this thread is super confuzzling.
My head hurts just trying to think about the concept of God, let alone if he exists or not.

 

[Cookie182]

Har sir! Notice, all, the subtle change in tone from Christianophobia to a broadside into the fog against 'religion'. Christ commands us, universally, to Love! To show mercy! To be meek! TO make peace! What do you command? Love yourself! This is the natural order, you say, and from this all else will take care of itself. As if a history had never been told! As if a life had not been lived or observed! You fool! You foolish fool! You call us slaves to a God, but this masks the real chains that you have to the evil that has blinded you to true salvation. As if Christians are motivated by greed rather than Love to serve their creator! As if the creator would show mercy to those who superficially follow him for an uncertain reward! And he has the hide to call us selfish!

You are a cold and heartless tyrant. You boast about your ignorance about love. Ha! What is that? you say. What is it that I dont have myself? Love is God, my friend. It is not a reason, it is a state. You will never come back to the father until you learn to love others as much as you so proudly love yourself.

Iron out

The next Ted Haggard

or maybe even Kent Hovind?

 

[Kwayera]

The next Ted Haggard

or maybe even Kent Hovind?

Speaketh not their names!

 

[Cookie182]

Seriously, if you want teachings on love, peace, kindness and need a 'religious source', Buddhist's do it best and they do away with the theology (for the most part). The Buddha preceded Jesus anyway, (by about 500 yrs), I'd actually say much of Jesus’ teachings are a copy (at least if not from him, but from Greek philosophy such as Platos "the Republic" and even just rehashes of Mosaic Law)

But really Iron and all other Christians, if you want a society who behaves like this then go ahead-

Adultery
You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery." But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Murder

You have heard that the ancients were told, "You shall not commit murder" and "Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court."
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, "You good-for-nothing," shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, "You fool," shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Pretty happy with our presumption of innocence, even if there is a bit of anger on court day (its an emotional time people...)

Even Barrack Obama commented on the 'Sermon on the Mount'-

"a passage so radical I doubt even our Defence Department could survive its application"

YouTube - Obama Speech on Religion

Good night

 

[Cookie182]

Speaketh not their names!

I'm sorry, I know its painful.

Hey, at least two great things happened.

Madman A turned out to be gay and a drug addict (losing his televangical position)

Madman B is in prison for fraud

Christianity at its finest....

For some late night laughs, check out Ali G with Madman B

Fucking hilarious...accuses him of leaving a "floater" in the toilet.

YouTube - Science, evolution, and creation: Ali G vs Kent Hovind

 

[Tully B.]

Theists also love the illogical "you can't prove it wrong" argument. What if I suggested right now that "the Matrix" is 100 percent correct? This is virtual reality, we are all biolgical batteries plugged into a programmed world in order to keep machines running through our electrical impulses. Ridiculous or not? I mean, you can't prove it wrong. How can you have so much "faith" that this is actually even reality then? Perhaps Christ was a program??

Hold up. Are you saying we don't live in the matrix. You're totally tripping me out.

Iron out

What. A. Wanker.