are you rich? if yes, you're automatically a liberal voter. (1 Viewer)

[incentivation]

I'm yet to see them doing anything of worth.

 

[Lentern]

Extension of Howard policy.

Yes but the old conviction politician who did things because they were the right thing to do without ever factoring petty politics voted against them.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

I've yet to see Labor really do anything of worth for the average 'working folk'.

You should probably start paying attention then.

Although it's true that in Australia, a lot of the reason to support Labour is to maintain the status quo rather than enact new legislation and policies - i.e. prevent Libs from getting in and eroding basic welfare safety nets like healthcare, labour rights, and centrelink, or, as is the case now, reverting any previous damage done to such institutions.

It's pretty rare that either party will have an opportunity to overhaul an Australian system in a beneficial and long-lasting way - such as Hawke and Keating did with the financial system which is now acting to position our banks as some of the strongest and most liquid in the world.

Generally, Australia is at a sweet spot in the political equilibrium. There's not much significant social or economic policy left for either party to campaign on reforming, and that's a good thing.

Edit: granted, I didn't loathe Howard, and I'm only nominally more content with Rudd, so I'm not going to sing the current Labour party's praises.

 

[Lentern]

I'm 20 and had 12+ years of Howard. That Labor is over.

Rudd's double fucked them by introducing the fair work legislation and strangling immigration.

I'm sorry i forgot when it comes to you, if you haven't actually experienced the effects of a policy yourself it might as well not exist. Rudd hasn't done much for the working man you are right, but the he has spent most of his career as leader of the ALP channelling John Howard.

 

[Lentern]

You're like a watered down knock off version of Iron.

I assure you the only think that unites us is Jesus.

 

[Lentern]

No I'm saying that it's all well and good to laud their past victories and decisions, etc.

But what has modern Labor done?

Apart from revamp defacto legislation and fix up huge imbalances for same sex couples, their social policy has been piss poor. Further, their economic management really hasn't helped keep people in jobs.

Plibersek was a moron to say the initial stimulus was 'incredible', it happened at Christmas. These people are vapid.

Fuelwatch

 

[Graney]

Plibersek was a moron to say the initial stimulus was 'incredible', it happened at Christmas. These people are vapid.

I'm pretty sure seasonal variation was taken into account in the analysis of the impact of the stimulus, and retail performance was well above the expected level.

I'm not defending it as a sensible, long term policy, but the evidence as I read it was that it did deliver a boost significantly above the forecast returns for the quarter.

 

[incentivation]

Although it's true that in Australia, a lot of the reason to support Labour is to maintain the status quo rather than enact new legislation and policies - i.e. prevent Libs from getting in and eroding basic welfare safety nets like healthcare, labour rights, and centrelink, or, as is the case now, reverting any previous damage done to such institutions.

Aren't the Liberal Party supposed to be the 'conservative' side of politics?

It's pretty rare that either party will have an opportunity to overhaul an Australian system in a beneficial and long-lasting way - such as Hawke and Keating did with the financial system which is now acting to position our banks as some of the strongest and most liquid in the world.

The Coalition can take much of the credit for ensuring stringent regulation and oversight of the financial sector.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

No I'm saying that it's all well and good to laud their past victories and decisions, etc.

But what has modern Labor done?

Apart from revamp defacto legislation and fix up huge imbalances for same sex couples, their social policy has been piss poor. Further, their economic management really hasn't helped keep people in jobs.

Plibersek was a moron to say the initial stimulus was 'incredible', it happened at Christmas. These people are vapid.

Rudd is actually against civil unions for same-sex couples (though admirably is also against their discrimination) so I wouldn't praise him too much in that area.

Rudd shouldn't be giving cash handouts. I've come to see that as a mistake. I'm all for infrastructure stimulus because we get something out of it at the end of this and it creates jobs in the short-term, but Rudd can't do much about the fundamentals coming out of America, Europe, or Asia, so he should be saving the cash stimulus money instead of using it in a very temporary, yet largely meaningless, boost to GDP numbers.

I believe that's actually the same stance France and Germany are taking - that they don't need cash stimulus because they have robust social welfare institutions to absorb any ecnomic fallout from a recession. So do we. We should rely on them instead.

 

[Graney]

I hope I get the next stimulus package.

I wonder how many stimulus packages they can do before the public starts to get rattled.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

I mean if these are the best and brightest that Australia has then no wonder people are getting the fuck out of this intellectual backwater.

That's a common misconception. It was seemingly mildly true before the resource boom, but hasn't held much weight since. In fact, it appears the recession is having the opposite effect - people coming (back) to Australia because the economy is still good here.

Especially true for New Zealand and the developing world (India, Asia), whose people are no less intellectually capable, regardless of whether they come from poverty or not.

Did you know that Australia is apparently an ideal location for forming IT companies/branches because of our timezone? The Americans and Europeans are asleep when the Asians are awake, but we're not.

 

[Lentern]

Look I'm far from a Liberal voter because I think they're a bunch of despicable kowtowing pansies and their current stance on immigration is abhorrent.

I keep up to date with the news on a fairly regular basis.

Labor's mandate on workchoices, fine, that's all well and good, though an economic recession is probably not the best time to make it harder to employ people.

Climate change, etc? They've done nothing there.

Reconciliation, well, that's a canard regardless.

Stimulus wise? Direct payments to people are ridiculous attempts at vote buying (And hell, they're working!)

It just seems like an ineffectual government with no real driving force or vision behind it.

Yeah, you're all too right. This government has no agenda, it has no view for Australia. Whether or not past governments did I'm not interested in debating now but it is clear that with a few noble exceptions the ALP wants to keep the system of government largely the same as it was under Howard and define itself not by choosing to act but how it acts when it is forced to. It's depressing, they didn't set out to do anything, they differ from Howard in how they respond.

The only real mission I think it's taken into government is education. Workchoices I think was not about Rudd or the ALP it was about responding to the cries of it's core support base and middle australia. Transforming public education is the only goal that Rudd seems to have and for my money his idea might be good but his execution has been shocking. Improving buildings and getting computers is probably going to make the kids happier and it is something tangible the government can point to but it isn't something that will raise education standards.

A financial crisis was in some ways a good thing for Rudd, it gave some purpose to his government which would otherwise be starting to look as though it was twiddling it's thumbs. The worst thing is I know somethings wrong, that there is a fundamental flaw but so many people rush to then point out we're an example to the world in terms of human rights and prosperity, therefore we must be very close to having the system right.

 

[Iron]

I thought that we had more in common than our Saviour, Lentern

you hurt me, my apprentice

 

[Lentern]

you hurt me,

Yeah...I do that to people.

 

[Iron]

 

[Lukybear]

But thats all you need Iron, what else more then our saviour?

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

But thats all you need Iron, what else more then our saviour?

A good root.

 

[kokodamonkey]

Medibank? Family allowance? Family allowance supplement? Enterprise bargaining? Minimum wage increases?

Minimum wage increases destroys jobs and ruins familys. Kevin Rudd = Pacific Hills firing people

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Minimum wage increases destroys jobs and ruins familys.

That's what Chairman Mao said.

 

[justanotherposter]

Well, yeah, that is why you're a Libertarian.

At least I'm honest about it.

Just curious, what are your views on the environment? I think it was Graney(?) who pointed out last night that the libertarian idea that the free markets would take care of the environment and that heritage funds etc would buy up the places worth protecting is pretty retarded.

On topic though, I'm upper middle class and there's no guarantee that I will vote Liberal in the next election. I'm a pretty indecisive voter though when it comes to these things so chances are that I'll change my mind a dozen times before the next election comes around.

EDIT:
I'm center-right so chances are that if labor continues it's effort for a new era of "social-captilism*" they definitely won't be getting my vote.

*http://www.livenews.com.au/Article/Index/174668?channel=home