"Adoption should be legalised for homosexual couples" (2 Viewers)

[Lentern]

I dont accept that for something to be 'wrong' it has to 'hurt' an individual, or me. Society as a whole is hurt, the family unit is hurt, the divine plan of procreation is hurt. Why does everybody confuse love with personal fulfillment? With lust? 'The good' is not always 'the pleasurable'. This confusion is one of the greatest problems in today's consumer society. Often it is good to deny temptation to selfishness and greed! This all comes back to the concept that there are greater truths beyond the individual! Accepting this is the touchstone of absolutism! It is the foundation of Christianity!

Silly me for thinking that having a positive result makes something a good thing and having a negative one makes it a bad thing.

Society is not harmed by homsexuality, it took some considerable steps forward under Philip of Macedon from memory. If you don't mind my saying it shows a special kind of arrogance to tell two people whom are completely devoted to each other that what they share is not love but personal fulfillment and lust. But thats allright because it fits into the constraints of the contemporary foundation of christianity, hopefully it will fit into the foundation of christianity in twenty years time.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jesus and reckon can't imagine where I'd be without prayer, but their comes a time when the church says tha what they think you should do is effectively inflicting pain uponanother of god's beautiful sons and daughters and one has to take a step back and think "hang on, maybe the scholars got this one wrong" and thats when you pray.

 

[Iron]

I dont exactly deny that a homosexual couple can love eachother in the popular sense of the word, but I do deny that it is a loving union consistent with man's loving union with his creator. It is a union closed off to the potential of life, it is a mockery of the gift of sex, it is a futile indulgement of lust ahead of the stoic responsibility to raise a family

 

[xeuyrawp]

Call it what you want, but it does comfort me to know that most Catholics aren't irrational.

Except for the whole superstition thing...

 

[Lentern]

I dont exactly deny that a homosexual couple can love eachother in the popular sense of the word, but I do deny that it is a loving union consistent with man's loving union with his creator. It is a union closed off to the potential of life, it is a mockery of the gift of sex, it is a futile indulgement of lust ahead of the stoic responsibility to raise a family

And you think that your benevolent lord would sooner see someone live a lonely life than a life filled with love just not quite the same love that exists between a man and his creator? My friend the god you believe in seems to be quite a nasty one. Why would you worship someone so nasty, join Satans army, after all we never did find out what it was that caused him to think himself greater than god, perhaps it was God's suggestion that wearing a garment woven of two threads deserves death that made him think he was morally superior. I think that a morally driven catholic, as opposed to a hack whose just trying to do the right things so he or she can enjoy heaven, must be prepared to reject God if he indeed is as he is portrayed in the bible.

 

[Iron]

We believe that the Holy Bible is literally God's definitive word to man. You have no right as a Catholic to interpret it privately.

Also as a Catholic, you would have probably noticed that we dont allow our Priests to marry. They abstain. Indeed, some of them may have homosexual desires which the Church has deemed that they have sufficiently controlled through the power of grace.

The love between man and God is the most pure form of love availiable. The lust we have for eachother borders on a curse because it is an urge which cannot be satisfactorily controlled by will alone.

 

[SnowFox]

We believe that the Holy Bible is literally God's definitive word to man. You have no right as a Catholic to interpret it privately.

Also as a Catholic, you would have probably noticed that we dont allow our Priests to marry. They abstain. Indeed, some of them may have homosexual desires which the Church has deemed that they have sufficiently controlled through the power of grace.

The love between man and God is the most pure form of love availiable.

... Ermmm...ok..

 

[Trefoil]

We believe that the Holy Bible is literally God's definitive word to man. You have no right as a Catholic to interpret it privately.

Why not? The Catholic church itself often reinterprets it and abstracts it. So much for the 'definitive word'.

 

[Iron]

The Catholic Church exists by authorization of Christ Himself. It is the universal guardian and shepherd of the text, dir.

 

[whatashotbyseve]

And this is why I will never understand Christianity. Or any religion for that matter. Priests do not come out because of a pathological need of the acceptance of a mythical figure that probably doesn't exist?

 

[AlleyCat]

Just pretending that it was definitively proven that homosexuality was unnatural, why would this matter? Humans do unnatural things all of the time, (such as typing on a keyboard, drinking coke, using condoms), but we don't think that the unnaturalness of these things results in them being immoral. So why would it be so with homosexuality?

read the rest of my post please.

 

[Iron]

And this is why I will never understand Christianity. Or any religion for that matter. Priests do not come out because of a pathological need of the acceptance of a mythical figure that probably doesn't exist?

What

 

[Graney]

That's a mystical journey of discovery each member must take on his or her own

Iron is perhaps the only contemporary conservative thinker I'm aware of that I actually respect. Although, admittedly I don't read widely in contemporary conservatives.

He's the only christian on this forum who actually helps me understand the paradigm he's coming from and does a half-decent job of making it seem reasonable. When I hear Abott espousing the good of the family, he makes such a hash of it, he doesn't deal with the fundamentals, it turn's anyone who's not already a catholic completely off.

 

[m00]

If i was an orphan i wouldn't want gay parents

 

[moll.]

If i was an orphan i wouldn't want gay parents

Have you ever experienced being an orphan? That sense of eternal loneliness and hopeless abandonment? Please don't talk out of your arse.

 

[Lentern]

We believe that the Holy Bible is literally God's definitive word to man.

No we don't. Who told you that? My old parish priest father Laurrie whom we all adored for his jovial nature used to scribble out bits of the readings he didn't like and replace them with more suitable words. For example he thought "brotherhood" was exclusive and sexist and changed it to community, he didn't like sheep, shepherd analogies so changed them.

 

[Craven]

We believe that the Holy Bible is literally God's definitive word to man. You have no right as a Catholic to interpret it privately.

Unfortunately, we're humans, not gods. There is no such thing as objectivity. It is impossible for every Catholic to definitively interpret the words written on the page as they were originally transcribed. Any knowledge of semiotics would tell you that. No one can ever know what the writer(s) of the Bible intended it to mean. It is a fallacy for anyone to privilege/force a particular reading of the Bible as the authors' intention on others as in the end the Church are also other humans interpretting...

 

[Iron]

Unfortunately, we're humans, not gods. There is no such thing as objectivity. It is impossible for every Catholic to definitively interpret the words written on the page as they were originally transcribed. Any knowledge of semiotics would tell you that. No one can ever know what the writer(s) of the Bible intended it to mean. It is a fallacy for anyone to privilege/force a particular reading of the Bible as the authors' intention on others as in the end the Church are also other humans interpretting...

No. The Church is a divine body, as I have said. It is authorized by Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit in its interpretation of the text and shepherding of mankind

Lentern, I like you but youre fundamentally wrong to think that the individual can interpret the Bible in whatever self-serving way he desires. I refuse to engage you further on this point.

 

[Craven]

And The Church is full of corrupt sinners - they are no more equipped to interpret God's word than any other normal human being/sinner.

Surely the fact that the Church has held ecumenical councils over the centuries is testament to the fact that the "definitive word of God" has in fact been reinterpretted numerous times with humans redefining - sure, apparently those humans are "guided" by God.. but if God told them that this is what he meant by those passages written so many years ago, why would the councils be such long and drawn out events?

Excuse me for being offtopic.

 

[Iron]

I'm not claiming that theological debate is simple? The Church is not on auto-pilot. Reason, logic and thoughtful discussion is as much a divine gift as love and compassion. The point is that the Church councils are the propper bodies to conduct such debate, not the unsophisticated individual's mind.

 

[tacogym27101990]

eww religion..
these religious views are shit