Anyone interested in practising law in a country town? (2 Viewers)

[hfis]

I don't think the scheme is really justified... with medicine I can understand, because doctors in the bush have massive workloads and lack the support of specialists, hospitals and desperately needed medical equipment. The worst that can happen for a lawyer is that they might have to drive into Sydney one month to mention some matters at the Supreme Court, or wait until the FMC goes on circuit to somewhere near them before being able to secure a family law hearing. I think the money would have been better diverted into the community legal centre system.

That said, I turned down a job in Canberra and two in Sydney to take a job in regional NSW. Work is actually fun, the lifestyle's great, the cost of living is incredibly cheap and (dare I sound snobbish) all it takes is the fact that you're a solicitor for people to be really interested in hearing about your average day. Of course, this is dispelled when they find out you're an utter bastard just like every other lawyer ever.

It's the most hands-on experience a grad can get, and I think the exposure to litigation (if that's your thing, like me) and different areas of law makes you an excellent all-rounder. I think the disputes that Marmalade is bitching about are far more interesting - not to mention more relevant to 95% of the population - than the commercial matters traditionally dealt with in the CBD powerhouses. To each their own I guess. All I know is that I'm more useful when it comes to impromptu legal advice at cocktail parties than your average 1st year M&A grunt

 

[RogueAcademic]

I don't think the scheme is really justified... with medicine I can understand, because doctors in the bush have massive workloads and lack the support of specialists, hospitals and desperately needed medical equipment. The worst that can happen for a lawyer is that they might have to drive into Sydney one month to mention some matters at the Supreme Court, or wait until the FMC goes on circuit to somewhere near them before being able to secure a family law hearing. I think the money would have been better diverted into the community legal centre system.

Hmm... that's a good point. I don't really have much of an idea what goes on in the countryside from a legal point of view other than agribusiness. Did you not come across any agribusiness work while you were out there?

Of course, this is dispelled when they find out you're an utter bastard just like every other lawyer ever.

haha.. what did you do..

It's the most hands-on experience a grad can get, and I think the exposure to litigation (if that's your thing, like me) and different areas of law makes you an excellent all-rounder.

But you could also easily get to do some hands-on all-round and litigation experience as a Legal Aid lawyer in the urban/city regions. Salary is about about the same (as per the article I posted) but standard if living would be higher of course.

 

[hfis]

Hmm... that's a good point. I don't really have much of an idea what goes on in the countryside from a legal point of view other than agribusiness. Did you not come across any agribusiness work while you were out there?

I haven't done much agribusiness, but my firm handles a lot of it. We certainly do a lot of conveyancing and transfer farmland from person-to-person, as well as business arrangements such as partnerships and whatnot. If you're referring to larger import/export deals I haven't come across them yet, but my supervising partner has worked on a few individual contracts of supply between supplier/purchaser.

haha.. what did you do..

Nothing unethical - but I've certainly found that when doing litigation in a small town, conflict of interest checks are vital before establishing a client file. It's difficult to answer the inevitable 'why' when you tell someone that you can't represent them, when the answer's 'because your wife was here earlier'. Also, going out on a Saturday night when your town has 2 popular local pubs and 1 poor excuse for a nightclub isn't the best idea - you often bump into a client or someone from the other side. It's never been a problem somehow though... I think the suit gives me magical powers of deception and that I'm completely invisible when I'm not wearing it.

But you could also easily get to do some hands-on all-round and litigation experience as a Legal Aid lawyer in the urban/city regions. Salary is about about the same (as per the article I posted) but standard if living would be higher of course.

This is certainly true, and I had the privilege of working in a similar capacity while in Wollongong (although I wouldn't say it's as urban as Sydney). The only problem is that a higher standard of living (ie. more to do) means a higher cost of living... I'm unsure which I prefer at this stage. I can see myself moving to the city after gaining a few years of PQE, but by that stage I might have opted for a mortgage on a large country property or something. Who knows! I think every form of practise has its own distinct advantages, and that a lawyer who's flexibile enough to move between all of them will never be out of work. I think it's inevitable that I'll move on eventually, but my experience has been nothing but positive so far.

 

[RogueAcademic]

Sorry, when I said higher standard of living, I meant higher cost of living. I daresay you could have a higher standard of living in the countryside, depending on how you view it.

Anyway I'm surprised the rural lawyer isn't more involved in the agribusiness. Because if so, you could argue that the rural lawyer could gain just as much commercial experience as a city lawyer. In which case, it would really make a strong case for a rural practice. That, plus a beachfront home..

by that stage I might have opted for a mortgage on a large country property or something.

You'd be nuts if you didn't. If I were in your position, I'd invest in a piece of undeveloped land with access to bore water. And then leave the property while you spend a few years in the city (with the usual property law precautions re squatters). Then when you've made your money, you'll be able to afford an architect who will build your dream home for you on the property.

 

[katie tully]

*shakes fist at katie tully*

I was deadly serious, if I were a law grad I'd doet

 

[cxlxoxk]

This scheme reminds me of "The Devil's Advocate" (a movie with Keanu Reeves).

 

[neo o]

That's not odd, I was considering signing up for the reserves myself even if I had a day job with a city law firm. I have friends in the army. It's actually quite hard to get into the military as a legal officer because most legal officers who get in, stay in. The military legal officers are generally tri-service (encompassing RAN, RAAF and AA) but I also hear that if you sign up with specific interest in the navy, you'll have the opportunity to be posted on a ship (there's a legal officer on every ship).

I'd be interested to hear any tips from the barrister you worked with, if you're ok talking about it?

She didn't give me any tips per se, we just got to talking after I found out that I had to hand some papers in early because she was going to Afghanistan. What she told me has been discussed in similar threads in these forums, basically that the army is the place to be if you want to practise international law and that they really look after you in terms of subsidising further education.

 

[hfis]

It's worth noting that the ADF's legal officers complete 6 years worth of further training after they join up that counts towards an LLM in defence law (or something to that effect). You're right about the available subsidies too - travel, course costs, (almost) everything. It's a really, really good job with great benefits and the only reason I didn't pursue it is because you can get posted to the other side of the country

 

[RogueAcademic]

that they really look after you in terms of subsidising further education.

It's my understanding that one would have to have an LLM in order to progress beyond a certain point?

 

[neo o]

It's my understanding that one would have to have an LLM in order to progress beyond a certain point?

I'd imagine so.

 

[RogueAcademic]

I'd imagine so.

I wonder - technically the Monash JD's full degree title is "LLM (Juris Doctor)", the final year of the JD is actually the equivalent of an LLM year (with subjects chosen from the LLM subject roster). So someone who graduates with the "LLM (JD)" and then joins the military should technically be able to move through the ranks from FLTLT* having already fulfilled the academic requirements right from the start?

*along with the other graduates.

 

[hfis]

You'd have more seniority (which equates to higher pay and better chances of promotion), but you'd start at the same place as everyone else. In the end the ADF wants you to have a firm grasp of the laws of conflict, the law of the sea (for the Navy, anyway) and understand how the military judicial system works - for which they put you through their own specialised courses

 

[RogueAcademic]

but you'd start at the same place as everyone else.

oh definitely. I wasn't saying in any way that I'd have any advantage in terms of starting point. I'm not expecting to be recruited into a senior commanding officer role immediately.

Can you imagine - first day in the military armed with nothing but an LLM(JD), shipped off to Afghanistan where I will proceed to shit my pants for the next two weeks dodging Taliban bullets. If I survive, I'd be able to write one hell of an entry in the following year's law student careers guide though.

 

[Jack Burton]

I wouldn't be a lawyer in a country town you'd be dealing with stolen pigs/cattle and on top of that the people are dirty and dumb so you it would be like talking to fish.

stupid peasants

 

[Jack Burton]

nah man, i dont want to teach a bogan how to read and shit. fuck that. im too smart for these speds

im hearing you bro... it'd be awkward trying to teach them to speak

 

[subdued123]

Does anyone else find Marmalade's constant cynicism and negativity annoying?

 

[cannibal.horse]

Does anyone else find Marmalade's constant cynicism and negativity annoying?

No.

That he doesn't want to deal with the old lady sueing her neighbour because their pool fence encroaches 1m over her property line seems pretty reasonable.

I really admire his honesty. We had to do client simulations a few weeks back with people from low socio-economic backgrounds who had minor legal problems. Looking at the case of an aboriginal I realised I'd basically never be able to put myself in their shoes so it probably wasn't the best area for me.

On the other hand some rich yuppie chick who lives on campus concluded that her client was 'a moron' and 'derserved to be locked up'. She's quite adament she'll become a criminal lawyer.

 

[Isboredofstudy]

Interesting idea. Wonder how it works in a practical situation though. Most country people tend to resolve issues peacefully anyway.