Bachelor of Pharmacy & Bachelor of Science? (2 Viewers)

[danielak]

I'll be enrolling into university for 2010. Looking through the course brochures, I'm wanting to know whether or not a Bachelor of Science can lead to a career in working in a pharmacy like a Bachelor of Pharmacy will. I suppose Science has a broader range of studies - is it more about the anatomy and cell biology? Would this lead to DNA/genetics research (I'm also interested in this.)? Btw, what's the difference between pharmacy and pharmacology? Sorry for all the newbie questions. I appreciate any help!

Thanks in advance.

 

[arjungamer123]

You can always do the.... uuuhh ...normal thing; and just apply to med/pharm postgrad.

 

[Deltan]

Looking through the course brochures, I'm wanting to know whether or not a Bachelor of Science can lead to a career in working in a pharmacy like a Bachelor of Pharmacy will.

To become a pharmacist, you need a pharmacy degree. Its a really specific course, why don't you just apply for pharmacy instead?

 

[danielak]

To become a pharmacist, you need a pharmacy degree. Its a really specific course, why don't you just apply for pharmacy instead?

I was thinking that. It just seems that science offers a broader range of knowledge, however if it's not enough to become a pharmacist or not the right choice, then pharmacy degree it is.

 

[RogueAcademic]

I'm wanting to know whether or not a Bachelor of Science can lead to a career in working in a pharmacy like a Bachelor of Pharmacy will.

No a Bachelor of Science will not lead to work as a pharmacist, it is different from the Bachelor of Pharmacy. Let me answer your next question first, it'll make better sense.

I suppose Science has a broader range of studies - is it more about the anatomy and cell biology? Would this lead to DNA/genetics research (I'm also interested in this.)?

You can choose to specialise your science degree in many areas - physics, mathematics, anatomy, cell biology, genetics, zoology, marine biology, you name it. So if you are interested in DNA/genetics research, you can quite easily choose to specialise in that area if you wish.

Btw, what's the difference between pharmacy and pharmacology?

One of the other things you can choose to specialise in a Bachelor of Science degree is pharmacology. Pharmacology is the actual 'science' behind drugs and medicine, you will learn how drugs and medicine work, you will learn how it affects the body and side effects, and how to develop new drugs and medicine. The areas of toxicology and venomology are part of pharmacology as well. Toxicology is the study of poisons (from chemicals), and venomology is the study of venoms (from snakes, spiders, blue ring octopus etc), and how each of them affect your body. Sometimes new medicines can be developed from venoms too. It's a very interesting field of science. Pharmacology is about research and development.

In the Bachelor of Pharmacy, you will learn the science of pharmacology and how to apply that knowledge to dispense the correct drugs and medicine to customers/clients. So when a doctor writes a prescription, the pharmacist will know exactly what drug to give and how much, and pharmacists are also qualified to recommend some minor types of medicine to customers without a doctor's prescription. There are many pharmacists who don't actually work in a pharmacist/chemist shop, they work in research and development along with pharmacologists to develop new drugs and medicines.

The advantage of doing a Bachelor of Science is that you can specialise in a wide range of science, you can quite easily specialise in genetics and pharmacology simultaneously. But the disadvantage is that you will not have a qualification to work as a pharmacist.

The advantage of doing a Bachelor of Pharmacy is that you will study pharmacology and pharmacy, and you can then choose to work as a pharmacologist in research or you can also work in a pharmacy/chemist to dispense medicine and drugs to customers/clients. But it's a very focused area and doesn't offer as much range as you can get in a Bachelor of Science degree. If you are 100% sure you want to specialise in pharmacy/pharmacology only, then it's the right degree for you.

 

[danielak]

RogueAcademic: Seriously, you just cleared up every-freaking-thing for me. It all makes a whole lot more sense now. Thank you so much! Let me give you an e-hug! =)

 

[arjungamer123]

When ever I go to the GP, it's the doctor that writes the amount of medication I need. I've never seen a pharmacist tell me how much I need....

 

[RogueAcademic]

RogueAcademic: Seriously, you just cleared up every-freaking-thing for me. It all makes a whole lot more sense now. Thank you so much! Let me give you an e-hug! =)

You're welcome. Any questions, feel free to ask. And let me know what you end up choosing to do, just out of curiosity.

PS. I think mentioned that the blue ring octopus above as venom, I think I'm wrong there, I think that falls into the category of toxinology which is a slightly different area of pharmacology yet again.

 

[RogueAcademic]

When ever I go to the GP, it's the doctor that writes the amount of medication I need. I've never seen a pharmacist tell me how much I need....

Yes it's the GP who writes the prescription but the pharmacist also understands the principles of correct dosage (if the GP makes a mistake in the prescription, the pharmacist should catch it and enquire with the GP to make sure). The pharmacist is trained, qualified and certified to dispense the medicine and drugs though, not the shop assistant, not anyone else. I suppose a sort of very rough equivalent is that the nurse is also trained and qualified to administer medicine and drugs to patients, they know exactly what they're giving, the correct dosage, when to give it, and how to monitor the patient. And like I said, the pharmacist is also qualified advise and prescribe certain types of minor medication.

 

[BigDk]

When ever I go to the GP, it's the doctor that writes the amount of medication I need. I've never seen a pharmacist tell me how much I need....

u obviosly dunno what a pharmacist does

 

[danielak]

There are many pharmacists who don't actually work in a pharmacist/chemist shop, they work in research and development along with pharmacologists to develop new drugs and medicines.
...
The advantage of doing a Bachelor of Pharmacy is that you will study pharmacology and pharmacy, and you can then choose to work as a pharmacologist in research or you can also work in a pharmacy/chemist to dispense medicine and drugs to customers/clients.

RogueAcademic: Sorry, another question, do you mean that a Bachelor of Pharmacy may also lead to a pharmacology career? Or did you mean that a pharmacist can work alongside a pharmacologist as an assistant in research?

By the way, you seem to know a lot, what do you do?

haha, I'll be sure to tell you what I end up doing. Although you'll have to find out in a year's time. =)

 

[RogueAcademic]

RogueAcademic: Sorry, another question, do you mean that a Bachelor of Pharmacy may also lead to a pharmacology career? Or did you mean that a pharmacist can work alongside a pharmacologist as an assistant in research?

Yes a pharmacy graduate is well equipped to work in research in the area of pharmacology as well. In the pharmacy degree you'll study pharmacology as the basis for the pharmacy work.

Or did you mean that a pharmacist can work alongside a pharmacologist as an assistant in research?

Well, in the research laboratory, the pharmacist and a pharmacologist are pretty much equal in terms of career path. There are no restrictions in career choice or career advancement for either the pharmacist or pharmacologist in the research lab.

But for a pharmacologist with a science degree, if you really want to get involved in research, you should really look into completing at least an honours year and a PhD later. A pharmacologist with a PhD would mostly outrank a pharmacist, unless the pharmacist has also completed a PhD. It's all a bit grey-ish actually, it depends on the circumstances, it depends on how long the pharmacist and pharmacologist has worked at a research lab or pharmaceutical company, it depends on other things like how much each one has published in medical/pharmaceutical journals etc.

It's just that the pharmacist has the option of going to work in a pharmacy/chemist if he or she chooses. The pharmacologist focuses solely on the research and development side only.

By the way, you seem to know a lot, what do you do?

I worked for a number of years at a medical faculty of a university.

 

[danielak]

Thanks again, RogueAcademic.

 

[Survivor39]

Yes a pharmacy graduate is well equipped to work in research in the area of pharmacology as well. In the pharmacy degree you'll study pharmacology as the basis for the pharmacy work.

Does a pharmacy graduate (4 years from an undergrad program) have the required research experience to do pure research in comparison with a science graduate with honours (also 4 years) in which they must complete 1 year of research?

I thought B Pharm doesn't have an extended research component. How, then, can they be an effective researcher in the lab when they have min. experience in designing and executing an experiment?

It's like asking a med graduate to do lab work. They aren't very good at it because their degree isn't meant to train them to become researchers.

 

[BigDk]

u can do pharmacy honour, which may involve lab research

 

[RogueAcademic]

Does a pharmacy graduate (4 years from an undergrad program) have the required research experience to do pure research in comparison with a science graduate with honours (also 4 years) in which they must complete 1 year of research?

I thought B Pharm doesn't have an extended research component. How, then, can they be an effective researcher in the lab when they have min. experience in designing and executing an experiment?

It's like asking a med graduate to do lab work. They aren't very good at it because their degree isn't meant to train them to become researchers.

I know of BPharm graduates who have gone straight into R&D in pharmaceuticals. I'm not particularly sure what the arrangement was, whether there was an in-house graduate program with rotations, after which they had the option of going into the R&D dept. They were also told of opportunities to further their studies whilst employees at the pharmaceutical with either a masters (coursework/research) or PhD after a couple of years, as part of a staff continuing development program.

In any case, I was speaking in a broad sense regarding career options. A BSc (pharmacology) graduate will not have a research background either unless they complete at least an honours year first. Completing either the BSc (pharmacology) or a BPharm will give you the background necessary for a research career if you decide to go down that path.

Re med graduates - I remember when the undergrad med graduates had to complete one year of medical science (equivalent to a BSc honours year) as a requisite component of the 6 year undergrad MBBS. These days it would certainly be an option for the students if their marks were up to scratch.

 

[danielak]

In any case, I was speaking in a broad sense regarding career options. A BSc (pharmacology) graduate will not have a research background either unless they complete at least an honours year first. Completing either the BSc (pharmacology) or a BPharm will give you the background necessary for a research career if you decide to go down that path.

So, in my words, both a BSc (pharmacology) graduate and a BPharm graduate will not be able to work in research (but will have some research knowledge) unless both have completed an honours degree, which I'm assuming many, if not all, BSc (pharmacology) graduates will do. On the other hand, BPharm grads usually just work in local pharmacies.etc. Can you clarify this?

 

[Survivor39]

So, in my words, both a BSc (pharmacology) graduate and a BPharm graduate will not be able to work in research (but will have some research knowledge) unless both have completed an honours degree, which I'm assuming many, if not all, BSc (pharmacology) graduates will do. On the other hand, BPharm grads usually just work in local pharmacies.etc. Can you clarify this?

As RougeAcademic has already stated, you need to complete a 4th (optional) honours year in the BSc (Pharmacology) after 3 yrs in BSc in order to be competitive to gain entry in to a research environment. A 3 year basic science degree or a pharmacy degree alone doesn't give you enough experience to perform research.

 

[RogueAcademic]

So, in my words, both a BSc (pharmacology) graduate and a BPharm graduate will not be able to work in research (but will have some research knowledge) unless both have completed an honours degree, which I'm assuming many, if not all, BSc (pharmacology) graduates will do. On the other hand, BPharm grads usually just work in local pharmacies.etc. Can you clarify this?

As I was saying, I have known some BPhram graduates who have gotten into R&D at pharmaceuticals before, I am not aware that they've done any kind of honours or postgrad work. I assume they receive research training on the job, maybe as part of the graduate training program or something in that vein. I know that there are continuing study programs/allowances that some of these pharmaceuticals offer research staff.

But for BSc graduates, it would be much easier if you complete at least honours year, as I was saying here:

But for a pharmacologist with a science degree, if you really want to get involved in research, you should really look into completing at least an honours year and a PhD later.

 

[RogueAcademic]

Here you go, I just looked up a couple of the more well-known pharmaceuticals for info. GlaxoKlineSmith has these internships for current students:

GSK offers internship opportunities during the academic calendar year to college students who are currently enrolled in an undergraduate (Junior or Senior only), graduate or Ph.D level degree program.

GSK's academic year internships are designed to recruit and hire top quality interns to feed the talent pipeline for GSK. These opportunities are available at our sites in the Raleigh, NC, Greater Philadelphia, PA and Waltham, MA areas.

We focus on identifying high-quality, challenging internships and recruiting the very best candidates to fill these positions. This will allow us to fully evaluate students and identify any suitable entry-level positions available within the business.

Two academic year internship programs include the Full-time Internship Program (FTIP) and the Part-time Internship Program (PTIP).​

Student Qualifications

Must be available to work full-time for the designated timeframe (4-6 months).
Junior, senior or graduate student level at an accredited university.
3.0 or greater cumulative GPA.
Track record of achievement and leadership in work and/or extracurricular activities.
Excellent communication skills, both oral and written.
Evidence of leadership and teamwork skills.
Majoring in area of study relevant and/or necessary to the position.
Preference given to students with work experience in their major area of study including previous internships.
Desire for a career in the pharmaceutical industry. ​

They talk about their support for postgraduate studies which also includes med graduates:

These programs are targeted to individuals interested in clinical drug development. Participants will spend time at both the assigned university ...

GSK has rich tradition of supporting post-graduate fellowship programs...

Initially these fellowships were post-graduate PharmD/PhD programs in drug development and in clinical pharmacology. The fellowships have now expanded to include other academic institutions, and post-residency programs for physicians....

In the past 25+ years over 200 individuals have completed a fellowship or residency program in the US.

These fellowships support this mission through the advancement of science at GSK and by preparing participants for professional pharmaceutical careers. The GSK Fellowship and Residency Programs are recognized internationally for training postgraduates in clinical research.

The GSK Academy of Pharmaceutical Medicine aims to advance the science and practice of pharmaceutical medicine at GSK, in part by making these programs available to promising scientists. These unique fellowships entail an initial year at the academic institution which includes didactic and practical experiences in the areas of drug discovery and development. The second year takes place at GSK where the fellow participates in currently active projects or in-depth research. Fellows have opportunities ranging from ‘hands on’ experience designing, implementing and interpreting studies to participating on matrix teams and investigation of specific scientific questions.​

They have 3-year graduate development programs in other areas (which includes R&D):

The program is structured into three, 12-month assignments within separate procurement areas. Those areas are Production, Global eSourcing Team (GeST), and one other specialist department ranging from Commercial, International, IT, Corporate Services, Research & Development and Global Systems and Operations.​

Here's the more general careers website for GlaxoKlineSmith.



I checked out the AstraZaneca website but they're a bit tight on information, they do briefly mention their training programs too though:

We recognise that employee learning and development is essential for the continued improvement of our business and our employees.
We encourage all employees to play an active role in discussing and determining their development needs with their manager and to take responsibility for maximising their own learning and development opportunities.

We offer different types of learning for different needs for example; training programs, mentoring and peer group coaching, on-the-job training and job swap/rotation.​