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The notion of "Hell" (2 Viewers)

Cookie182

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Just sharing an article on the notion of religious Hell that I enjoyed. Its written in very simplistic terms, isn't too long and certainly raises good questions for the evangelist to ponder and henceforth discuss.

Why does an ever-burning HELL not make sense?

Two particular quotes I liked, and which present my main problem with religion are:

The Southern Baptist Convention committee's year 2000 recommendations propose that the 1963 wording be retained. Hell will remain a place of eternal torture without any relief.

The Southern Baptist Convention Home Mission Board conducted a study in 1993 which estimated how many Americans have had a born-again experience. They concluded that 30% of adult Americans have been "saved" and thus are going to Heaven; the 70% remainder are destined for Hell. The percentage of Canadians who are going to Heaven are presumably much lower, because of the relatively small numbers of Fundamentalist and Evangelical Protestants in that country -- probably about 8%.
And of course this is only one example of recent news stories of the deaths of large numbers of "innocent people." What about the 275,000 or so who died in the wake of the gigantic Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004? Most of those deaths were in nations with huge numbers of people who have never heard any version of the Christian Gospel. Does the average member of those churches above, and others like them, really believe all those people suffered and died in the waters of the Tsunami, only to be instantly cast into a maelstrom far worse … endless waves of flames in Hell?
Specifically I'm targetting those whom identify as religious, what is your belief regarding Hell?
 

Cookie182

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For lol's

Here is a hardline evangelical article:

Chances Are, You are going to Hell

lol at this

When you consider Paul's words with the rest of the Bible, rest assured, there'll be plenty of room for driving ranges in Heaven. Studies show the majority of people have had premarital sex. They're condemned as fornicators. All those other than Christians are going to Hell as idolaters (and that includes the Catholics who worship that harlot, Mary, and the so-called "saints"). Studies show most people get drunk at times, so they're out. And, of course, the sodomites are out (but we knew that anyway, without Paul's words).
 

Cookie182

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This has got to be a parody site, Kwayera read through it with me

I've never lol'ed so hard

What We (God) Believes

Examples:

Discover the Incredible Secrets of Landover Baptist in Our Bestselling New Book:

Who We Are and What We (And God) Believe

Our Bible Based Policy Against The Unsaved
Click Here for Even More Details on This Policy

As most churches liberalize themselves and reject the commandments written by God in the Holy Bible, the Landover Baptist Church continues to do exactly what scripture teaches every Christian to do. And that is to keep the temple of the living God a clean vessel, untarnished by even a hint of fellowship with the unrighteous.

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds" (2 John 1:9-11).

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." (2 Corinthians 6:14-17).

We pray that God sends his Holy Spirit upon this Christian Nation and opens up the hearts of other Bible believing Christians so that they will adopt the same Bible-based policy that has kept our church strong for nearly 217 Godly years. For a list of common-sense reasons for keeping unsaved people out of your church click here.

About Us (God's Favorite Church):

We are a Bible believing, Fundamentalist, Independent Baptist Church. We are 157,286 members strong. Our Church Campus is located in Freehold, Iowa and rests on 35 acres of some of the most beautiful country you'd ever care to set your eyes upon. Our church holds 28 paid pastors, 131 paid deacons, 412 full time staff members, LCA (Landover Christian Academy), LCU (Landover Christian University), 11 fully equipped chapels, Four 2,000 seat sanctuaries, Three 5,000 seat main sanctuaries, the world's largest Christian Mall, a Christian Amusement Park (Landover Bible Theme Park and Red Sea World), A PGA 18 Hole Golf Course, 3 Fitness Centers, 4 Olympic sized swimming pools, Landover Village, Landover Towers, Landover Retirement Community, Center For 2 Churches On Every City Block Foundation, Leviticus Landing (An Exclusive Gated Executive Christian Community for Platinum Tithers™), Exodus Acres (Gold Tithers' Gated Community), *27 Developments, Landover All Purpose Multi-Temple, Spa and Resort Center, Fire Department, 100,000 seat amphitheater, 12 Television studios, 2 radio stations, A Christian Circus Camp, Retreat Center for Republican Candidates, 3 Corporate Christian Office Parks, hot springs, 8 cemeteries, and 243 fully certified Christian police officers.

A Godly Warning:

We Believe in the WHOLE Bible (1611 KJV). We don't throw out the parts that make us feel uncomfortable, like the book of Leviticus. We bid you greetings, friend. We do not read, eat, consume, digest, or 'try on' any product that is not made and manufactured by born-again, Bible believing, Fundamentalist Baptist Christians, and we would have you know that we condemn anyone that does, and pray as King David did, 'against them' for a quick end and a speedy journey to a very hot place, where they can spend out all eternity honoring our Lord and Maker in a literal lake of fire, Amen. Please find our site a blessing.!

Christianly Attire:
Click Here For an Invaluable True Christian™ Resource on Proper Womenly Attire

We believe that when a person first gets saved, the first thing they should do is buy a suit and a tie. If the individual is a female, then a dress not raised over an inch above the knee is acceptable. Clothing is perhaps the most important thing about being a Christian. If one is not properly clothed and fully representative of what God would want them to appear like... well then, that person is probably not saved. Our motto is "get saved, get to a Christian Clothing store, and get fitted for the kingdom." A man should dress and act like a man, and a woman should dress and act like a submissive female helpmate. That about sums it up. Anyone who does not conform to the dress code at Landover Baptist will be fined no less than $300.00 a violation. It is a privilege to be a Christian and we believe that it is about time folks started acting like it!

Who is In Charge Here?:

We will go into further detail here by stating that all authority is granted to Pastor Deacon Fred Smith. This is in full accordance with Romans 13. If you are not familiar with Romans 13, well then we suggest you read it. A good ten or twelve readings of Leviticus wouldn't hurt either. Our pastor sometimes uses his godly authority to invoke the Lord's Law from the Bible in Leviticus. This is sometimes too much for some folks. If they refuse punishment, then they have the option of paying a $500.00 fine plus expenses accrued by the planning committee of Levitical Law Implementation. If you haven't cracked a Bible in a few years.. then Landover is not for you.

Baptist Behavior 101 and Fines for Misconduct:

The following violations will result in a monetary fine of no less than $200.00 as to be determined by Church Pastors and Elders: Failure to show up at church on time, Failure to attend a church service without written permission from a pastor or other agreed upon authority, Church parking lot violations, Single males or females caught in the houses of members of the opposite sex without proper supervision, out after curfew, failure to tithe, failure to perform Christian Service obligations, Use of a church key without proper permission, Sleeping and/or horseplay during church services, reading of 'crime oriented' comic books, possession of alcohol outside of Post Communion Party regulations, idol worship, inappropriate dress in town or in church, dress related to 'counter-culture' movement, beards are not allowed except with special permission from Pastor Smith himself, long earrings on women, use of tampons is strictly prohibited, men with earrings or jewelry of any kind, hugging, possession of pornographic material (except for widowed or single men over the age of 65), failure to identify oneself to a church authority, failure to answer a call slip, witchcraft, dancing and/or skipping, association with Catholics, Presbyterians, Mormons, Methodists, Unitarians, Episkypols, or any other occult activity (unless under supervision by Dr. J. Edwards), failure to conform to rules and regulations, failure to submit to authority, the questioning of church authority is not tolerated and may result in dismissal, failure to bring at least one new guest to church a week, failure to win at least one soul a week, disrespect, lying, stealing, cheating, plotting, failure to have a demon-possessed infant sterilized, attendance at non-Christian owned picture houses, and rock music. General Rules are subject to change at any time without notice. Members are expected to find out what the new rules are within two hours. Let us note here, 'A Christian who is interested in doing their own thing, will not feel comfortable at Landover.. we would even go as far to question whether or not that individual is a Christian to begin with.
Visiting Landover Baptist

You will want to make your reservations 2 years in advance for any service where head Pastor, Deacon Fred is preaching. (Please be patient, we are booked solid) Cost is $75.00 per person. Other services and guided tours can be arranged by calling the Landover Information line at: 1-900-976-7867. Reservations for church attendance and payments to hear the gospel of Christ can be arranged through a Christian extension of Priceline.com ticket sales (keyword: priceline.com - landover baptist church ticket sales)

*Affordable housing opportunities available for so-called "minorities" within 100 miles of church campus.
Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever.
Please tell me this is not a real church?

Edit: Further investigations lead me to believe it is a joke. It is actually a parody ran by some evangelical atheists see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-jk3VvjGoE
 
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Lukybear

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I BELIVE when you die, your soul, in body form is accompanied by a beautiful angel, dressed in white in an elevator which is riding up to heaven...

I hope you seriously do not consider the afterlife and the realities of heaven and hell as the "pop theology" describe in the article? Especially on this website where the majority of the populus are increidbly educated.

From my cursory glance at the article, I suppose it was written to discredit Christians and their notion of after life and death. All the facts that they've used are highly exaggerated, and perhaps "only in America".

Know this, from the bible, we are told, those who do die however belive in Jesus, i.e. saved, are going to a place of eternal enjoyment, happiness. Whether this could be the new heaven and Earth described in revelation or some other form of eternal bliss, we do not know. In the same way, whoever DIES and fail to belive in Christ i.e. no saved, will be in eternal punishment, which the public credit as HELL. In what forms of this, I do not think it has been properly revealed to us, perhaps Iron can expand as he is Catholic.

But I dont think Christians at general consider the notion of hell. Why would they, when only eternal sunshine presides at their deaths. In fact, some famous Christian theologines i.e. C.S. Lewis consider death abhorrent, but rather the beggining of something amazing.
 

Lukybear

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Also I must say, this generalisation of the Church is extremely dangerous. You cannot adopt the opinions and actions of Extremist muslims as that of the muslim faith... it is highly dangerous, not only morally but also in dangerment of being "bashed".

Seriously however, in the same way, you cannot look at the doctrine of one church, claim it false and extremist then discard the WHOLE CHURCH in total.

In truth, there is only 1 CHURCH, that is of the body of Christ. As long as you belive you are saved because Christ died for you sins, then you are saved.
 

Iron

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I like how people's own standards of what constitutes the requisite behaviour to get into heaven fluctuates over time. Of course in the middle ages it was believed that only very few people would be spared the fires of eternal damnation. I suppose that this reflected the stagnation and despair felt in that period. But naturally today, in the freedom-loving west, most people who believe in God just assume that theyre right for paradise and that God is a new-age parent, cool with their imperfections, no worries.

Catholics arent so naive.

But on the question, idk. For a while, I was happy to think of it as mere separation from God by being suspended in time, whereas Heaven was more a release from time and complete unification with the father. But I dont find it very relevant to the way you lead your life, because you must make positive steps towards Christ, rather than just negative steps away from evil for a reward. It's a matter of conscience and deed
 

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Hell is probably the hardest notion for me to get my head around. That someone could damn a human being to an eternity of incredible suffering to me says they're probably not that nicer guy. I don't think I could worship such a harsh figure, my compassionate instincts would not allow it. I do however think someone who lived a sadistic life with little sign of repetance or someone whom still after death rejected christ and insisted on living apart from him would not get to be with him. I do believe in hell, but only the most evil beings and those who decline the rope that christ throws them would be doomed to it. If it should turn out God sends people to hell by the million after all, even if i'm offered a place in heaven I think i'll take hell. I'd want no business with such a cruel, unforgiving tyrant.
 

Iron

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Haha I like how Lentern pressumes to impose his own standards on God.

Christ is the forgiveness, compassion and mercy! You have been warned!
 

simonloo

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My friend says 'hell is only an absence of God'. I think this makes sense.
 

Cookie182

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I think my biggest issue is comprehending the idea of a humanitarian atheist going to Hell (where they are tortured literally in fire for all time) and a sinful murderer who turns to Christ out of fear on his deathbed, repents and is subsequently 'saved'- allowing an eternity in "paradise". I mean, at what stage does the punishment fit the crime? If we "love thy neighbour" why is it so important we also love God?

And what of the people who are born and given no opportunity to love the Christian God? Why should they suffer damnation?
 

Iron

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Because God is love, see. If genuine love is there, so is God. You can serve and love God without realising it; you may even follow Christ's example of compassion and universal love without ever being told about Him. But in our context, I think that the point is that you cant help but love God if you are good and loving and true to Christian values; they go hand in hand!
God is love!
 

Lukybear

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:p
I like how people's own standards of what constitutes the requisite behaviour to get into heaven fluctuates over time. Of course in the middle ages it was believed that only very few people would be spared the fires of eternal damnation. I suppose that this reflected the stagnation and despair felt in that period. But naturally today, in the freedom-loving west, most people who believe in God just assume that theyre right for paradise and that God is a new-age parent, cool with their imperfections, no worries.

Catholics arent so naive.

But on the question, idk. For a while, I was happy to think of it as mere separation from God by being suspended in time, whereas Heaven was more a release from time and complete unification with the father. But I dont find it very relevant to the way you lead your life, because you must make positive steps towards Christ, rather than just negative steps away from evil for a reward. It's a matter of conscience and deed
How one of the preachers I've recently met told me that the torture in so called "hell" was being locked outside the pearly gates of heaven, from eternal bliss. This is a common view amongst Christians.

However it dosent seem a big deal to us, as there is the knowledge that the result will not be "hell" but rather eternal enjoyment in God's kingdom. So CONVERT.

And no one said Catholics were naive, sure some are, but no one is perfect.

Hell is probably the hardest notion for me to get my head around. That someone could damn a human being to an eternity of incredible suffering to me says they're probably not that nicer guy. I don't think I could worship such a harsh figure, my compassionate instincts would not allow it. I do however think someone who lived a sadistic life with little sign of repetance or someone whom still after death rejected christ and insisted on living apart from him would not get to be with him. I do believe in hell, but only the most evil beings and those who decline the rope that christ throws them would be doomed to it. If it should turn out God sends people to hell by the million after all, even if i'm offered a place in heaven I think i'll take hell. I'd want no business with such a cruel, unforgiving tyrant.
If it would help Lentern, I would just like to say that Death, was caused by Sin. I am not sure how the other denominations view this, but from my knowledge, Humans were made to be timeless, but with sin, so came death.

By this logic, this presents the justification of hell for those of "non-sadistic" life . If those "non-sadistic" people were in fact perfect, unsinful, undoubtled they're not, then they wouldnt have to die, and be condemmed to hell.

I agree that the concept of a omnipotent God, which tolerates ONLY perfection is difficult to deal with. But logically, for such a God to be just, punishment and judgement must be dealt. And in here, this "harsh figure" give you salvation of allowing this judgment, this eternal dammanation to be pinned upon his ONE and ONLY Son, Jesus Christ, so that for whoever would belive, "by faith and not by works, so that they cannot boast" :p will be saved from Hell and experience the perfection that is of Heaven, of his Eternal Kingdom.
 

jb_nc

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Because God is love, see. If genuine love is there, so is God. You can serve and love God without realising it; you may even follow Christ's example of compassion and universal love without ever being told about Him. But in our context, I think that the point is that you cant help but love God if you are good and loving and true to Christian values; they go hand in hand!
God is love!
God = love.

He is in love.

He is in God.

Try harder, Iron.
 

Lukybear

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I think my biggest issue is comprehending the idea of a humanitarian atheist going to Hell (where they are tortured literally in fire for all time) and a sinful murderer who turns to Christ out of fear on his deathbed, repents and is subsequently 'saved'- allowing an eternity in "paradise". I mean, at what stage does the punishment fit the crime? If we "love thy neighbour" why is it so important we also love God?

And what of the people who are born and given no opportunity to love the Christian God? Why should they suffer damnation?

I see your first dilema, that is the so called "good" people go to hell, whilst "bad" people go to heaven.

It is not as black and white as it seems. There are human morality, then there is God morality.

Consider this, your flesh and everything in this world belongs to God. This include your soul, your mind, your body, EVERYTHING. It is at this point, Jesus, should be considered. That Christ was a PERFECT BEING, sinless and amazing, yet he SUFFERED abhorrent feats of torture nevertheless. Is that fair? That even tho, he truly DIDNT deserve to suffer he did? And the suffering he experienced was the punishment which we should of deserved. And this was planned from the very beginning of time.

Perhaps is easier for me to accept this, as I am taught to love thy neighbour (not that i do this).

I also just want to say, that to be saved I think, you must truly believe that Jesus died for your sins. I am not sure if that applies to the case of the murder. For if he did, then the spirit would of transformed him.

That would be the case wouldnt it Iron?
 

Lentern

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:p




If it would help Lentern, I would just like to say that Death, was caused by Sin. I am not sure how the other denominations view this, but from my knowledge, Humans were made to be timeless, but with sin, so came death.

By this logic, this presents the justification of hell for those of "non-sadistic" life . If those "non-sadistic" people were in fact perfect, unsinful, undoubtled they're not, then they wouldnt have to die, and be condemmed to hell.

I agree that the concept of a omnipotent God, which tolerates ONLY perfection is difficult to deal with. But logically, for such a God to be just, punishment and judgement must be dealt. And in here, this "harsh figure" give you salvation of allowing this judgment, this eternal dammanation to be pinned upon his ONE and ONLY Son, Jesus Christ, so that for whoever would belive, "by faith and not by works, so that they cannot boast" :p will be saved from Hell and experience the perfection that is of Heaven, of his Eternal Kingdom.
Poopycock, first iron now you. Quakers looking more tempting every day.
 

Iron

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Go ahead, throw your vote away
 

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