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Should Australia grow its population to 100 million? (2 Viewers)

Graney

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Many in denial over rising population

The United Nation's Population Fund is concerned population growth in Asia averages 1.1 per cent a year. Australia, as a First World country, should have a much lower growth rate. It does not. By the end of the Howard era, our annual population growth had risen to a stunning 1.5 per cent: almost off the First World scale and high even for Third World countries. (Indonesia's, by contrast, was then 1.3 per cent, but has recently come down, with much effort, to 1.2 per cent.)

Under the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, our rate has increased. According to Bureau of Statistics figures, it is now 1.7 per cent. Both natural increase and net migration continue to rise. At this rate, one which many are determined to maintain or increase, our population will reach 42 million by 2051. By the end of the century, it will pass 100 million.

This is far above any credible estimate of the population Australia could hope to feed.

Troubles will come sooner. This week's government white paper proposes a 5 per cent cut in emissions, but this, like Ross Garnaut's report, assumes large per capita cuts can outpace population growth, like a swimmer prevailing against the tide. But this planning is based on the dubious assumption we are heading for 28 million people living in Australia by 2051, rather than 42 million. If the Rudd Government does not change course, even painful per capita cuts will deliver no overall cuts, but an increase.

Much the same goes for water consumption. El Nino droughts come two or three times a decade, yet state and federal governments are, in effect. gambling it won't happen on their watch. Several of Rudd's ministers, most notably Penny Wong and Peter Garrett, are "population deniers". Even Rudd has been heard repeating the nonsensical claim that "numbers are not the issue". They are.

Some claim Australia is a big country, "boundless plains to share", etc. Yet the geographer George Seddon has remarked Australia is more truly "a small country with big distances". Even our agricultural areas are not so large, or fertile, as population boosters pretend. Wheat is our main crop, yet France, for instance, grows twice as much wheat (and far more of most other crops).

The human as well as the natural environment deteriorates as population grows. Two years ago, the NSW Government instructed Sydney's councils to accommodate an extra 1.1 million people within 25 years. Bankstown, for instance, was told to build 26,000 extra homes. Most councils protested it was impossible to reconcile this with conserving the amenity of the suburbs. Even these draconian plans will be overwhelmed by additional people.

In the Hawke-Keating days, the knee-jerk reaction to any suggestion that population growth, and therefore perhaps immigration, should be reduced was to accuse the critic of "racism". Yet polls show most immigrants think immigration is too high.

But the Government seems asleep at the wheel. The Minister for Immigration, Chris Evans, claims to foresee only "a continuing modest increase in our population levels over coming years".

Others continue to claim that births are not keeping up with deaths. Bureau of Statistics figures show that births each year in Australia are twice the number of deaths, have been so for decades and look like being so for several years more. Baby bonuses are the last thing we need.

Tim Flannery has suggested that, granted the rate at which we are losing soil, Australia's safe carrying capacity in the long term may be as low as 8 to 12 million people. As he points out, humans are extremely long-lived mammals. Population growth, like herpes, is easily acquired but very hard to lose.

In 1994, the Australian Academy of Science held a conference to publicise its findings on population: 23 million people should be our limit. Today, with peak oil and climate change now realities rather than theories, that might have to come down.

Over the years, Australians have been promised a series of points at which population growth would supposedly be capped: Bob Hawke spoke of 25 million, which the Fitzgerald report had suggested might be the limit set by water resources. Within the last decade, Philip Ruddock, as minister for immigration, spoke soothingly of our population naturally peaking at some 23 million (later he said 25 million). Peter Costello's Intergenerational Report claimed that population would be only 28 million in 2051. Our current trajectory is to break 100 million by 2100.

Just as every fat person was once a normal child, so every bloated behemoth nation of 100 million-plus was once a nation of 5 or 10 million, with intact ecosystems and abundant water. Even Java, as late as the early 19th century, had fewer than 5 million people.

Population increase suits governments wanting to please the business community now, by doing something the full cost of which will only emerge over the next 20, 30, 40 or 50 years - far beyond the attention span of three-year governments. There is still a way out and it is not economically naive to think population growth can be slowed.

Much of politics is repetitive and unproductive, but sometimes a logjam breaks. In the past two years, most politicians have ceased being in denial about climate change, greenhouse emissions, limits to water, and peak oil.

All these crises reflect the deeper underlying problem: our population growth is out of control. Waiting for the population debate to begin is like waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Many in denial over rising population - Opinion - smh.com.au

"it's doubtfull Australia can even support its present population: the best estimate of a population sustainable at the present standard of living is 8 million people, less than half of the present population."
- Jared Diamond

Australia faces some of the most severe environmental problems in the world.

Is it in our long term interest, not only for the environment, but also economically, to continue to grow the population at it's current rate?
 
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big8oyjames

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

ok please. 42 million by 2051? WTF. this will NEVER happen. the ramifications of such a rise in population for this country will cause ALOT of problem. where the fuck is Australia going to get this many people from? we dont fuck that much and even when we do its with a condom. Christ sake, wtf would happen to Sydney transport system. LOLZ. WTF.
 

jb_nc

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

Did you just quote motherfuckin Jared Diamond????
 

big8oyjames

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

Yet polls show most immigrants think immigration is too high.
hahahaha
 

Graney

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

big8oyjames said:
ok please. 42 million by 2051? WTF. this will NEVER happen. the ramifications of such a rise in population for this country will cause ALOT of problem. where the fuck is Australia going to get this many people from? we dont fuck that much and even when we do its with a condom. Christ sake, wtf would happen to Sydney transport system. LOLZ. WTF.
There's been many politicians over the years who've called for Australia to grow it's population to 50 million or more. Wanting to grow it into a world power, in the manner of contemporary European and Asian nations. I think they don't really understand much about Australia's uniquely precarious environmental and economic situation.

We're certainly taking in enough immigrants at present that the population will grow to that level at current rates, and there's going to be no shortage of willing skilled migrants we could import forevermore.
 

Will Shakespear

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

2098: Australia's population is 100 million.

95 million don't know the difference between its and it's
 

Graney

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

proofreading's for suckers.
 

big8oyjames

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

im sick of immigration increases. srsly. i was made to look like a racist fuck cause i said the the socialists at uni that Australia needs to decrease its immigration intake. and then i was told that if it wasn't for the intake that my parents wouldn't be here.

there is just too many people in this country. the infrastructure cant hadle it, the people cant handle it, nothing in our current system can handle such an influx of people.

a word power? what for? if we are ever in any trouble im pretty sure we are safely backed up by the states. done need to throw our arrogance around outside our own region. ie the south pacific.
 

Kwayera

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

Should we grow our population?

No. I think the current population is too much.
 

zstar

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

Just do what Japan does.

Replace man power with robot power.
 

Trefoil

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

I think a cap of 40 to 50 million and then a steady decline back to 30 million or so would be good.

This recent population increase worries me - we were starting to slow down like Europe is.

I mean, population ageing is going to suck, but it needs to happen (short-term pain vs long-term crisis). We can't fuck ourselves out of this problem.

As much as I'm a fan of immigration, cutting it is the easiest way to arrest growth. So we need to deal with the skills shortage another way - more automation, and pushing back the retirement age seem appropriate.
 
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cxlxoxk

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

Fuck no 20 million is already too many...if we increase it five-fold imagine the crime statitistics, employment/unemployment statistics, the traffic, public transport, hospitals/health sector.
 

chicky_pie

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

big8oyjames said:
ok please. 42 million by 2051? WTF. this will NEVER happen. the ramifications of such a rise in population for this country will cause ALOT of problem. where the fuck is Australia going to get this many people from? we dont fuck that much and even when we do its with a condom. Christ sake, wtf would happen to Sydney transport system. LOLZ. WTF.

When I first read the title, I thought of that, lmao.
 

Lex152

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

How do you limit population growth?
Do we adopt China's one child policy?
Cut immigration in half?
Turn away all assylum seekers?
Intoduce an Australian values test that asks you to reproduce all theories of string theory?

Saying OMG POPULATION IS TOO HIGH, GET OFF MY TRAINS is one thing, but how do we solve this problem?
 

cxlxoxk

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

Lex152 said:
How do you limit population growth?
Do we adopt China's one child policy?
Cut immigration in half?
Turn away all assylum seekers?
Intoduce an Australian values test that asks you to reproduce all theories of string theory?

Saying OMG POPULATION IS TOO HIGH, GET OFF MY TRAINS is one thing, but how do we solve this problem?
We don't know, but we need to find out! Or maybe our western world/humans altogether is doomed to go extinct in the future. We can't live forever, can we?

One child policy is unfair if you want to have more than one kid, i personally i want 1 boy, 1 girl...that is 2 kids...
 

cookie.banana

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

cxlxoxk said:
We don't know, but we need to find out! Or maybe our western world/humans altogether is doomed to go extinct in the future. We can't live forever, can we?

One child policy is unfair if you want to have more than one kid, i personally i want 1 boy, 1 girl...that is 2 kids...
ok ken webb
 

Will Shakespear

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

John Oliver said:
General increase in education levels leads to a reduction in population rates. Reduce immigration levels substantially (They are quite high and Rudd has increased them, Howard had record high immigration numbers which was why I lul'd when everyone called him racist).

Asylum seekers is an emotionally charged term, but I think we should engage in a program to provide safe havens for people, not necessarily within Australia, but somewhere where they can be sustained.

AVT is retarded, and it shows that you're not making a valid argument loAL.

Although immediately ceasing all immigration is also retarded.
Education takes years and costs millions, and is useless on a lot of people

Sterilisation takes 5 minutes and works on everyone

Just sayin...
 

Graney

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

Lex152 said:
Saying OMG POPULATION IS TOO HIGH, GET OFF MY TRAINS is one thing, but how do we solve this problem?
It's not hard. Reduce immigration levels. Reduce incentives that make it financially easy for locals to have kids, like the baby bonus, allowances for families etc... Four in ten families pay no net tax, so there's plenty of scope for making having kids harder without resorting to the fascism of a one child policy

Four in 10 families pay no tax | The Australian
 

Will Shakespear

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Re: Should Australia grow it's population to 100 million?

Graney said:
It's not hard. Reduce immigration levels. Reduce incentives that make it financially easy for locals to have kids, like the baby bonus, allowances for families etc... Four in ten families pay no net tax, so there's plenty of scope for making having kids harder without resorting to the fascism of a one child policy

Four in 10 families pay no tax | The Australian
Maybe we could help couples fight their biological instincts with a "no baby bonus", a handout of a couple of thousand to all couples or singles above a certain age with no kids
 

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