• Best of luck to the class of 2024 for their HSC exams. You got this!
    Let us know your thoughts on the HSC exams here
  • YOU can help the next generation of students in the community!
    Share your trial papers and notes on our Notes & Resources page
MedVision ad

Integration by parts. Find S Sin(x)Cos(x) (1 Viewer)

conics2008

Active Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
1,228
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
I know you can do this the simple way, but I'm trying to make life abit harder, try using integration by parts to solve this, if you can't.

This is a start for you, find the recurrenece formulae of

S sin^n (x)cos^m (x) or S sin^n (x) cos^m(x) or S sin^m (x) cos^m (x).

Good Luck !!!!!
 

ronnknee

Live to eat
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
474
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
Finding the recurrence formulae for those gets ridiculous
But integrating sin x.cos x ain't a problem
 

vds700

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
861
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
why the hell would anyone want to make things more comlicated than they need to be

sorry but my way of thinking is that the simplest way is the best way
 

conics2008

Active Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
1,228
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
ronnknee said:
Finding the recurrence formulae for those gets ridiculous
But integrating sin x.cos x ain't a problem
ofcourse i already know how to integrate sinx cosx but i really want to know the reccurence formulae for this.. because doing it by integration by parts its goes on and on soo un cooll =)
 

3unitz

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
161
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
by parts?

I (sinx.cosx) dx = sinx.sinx - I (sinx.cosx) dx
2 I (sinx.cosx) dx = (sinx)^2
I (sinx.cosx) dx = (sinx)^2 / 2 + C
 

conics2008

Active Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
1,228
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
3unitz said:
by parts?

I (sinx.cosx) dx = sinx.sinx - I (sinx.cosx) dx
2 I (sinx.cosx) dx = (sinx)^2
I (sinx.cosx) dx = (sinx)^2 / 2 + C
hey 3unitz so your saying a function can have more than 1 intergal ??
 

conics2008

Active Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
1,228
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
this is what im trying to say

sinx cos x = 1/2 sin2x right ???

therefore 1/2 S sin2x >> 1/2 {- 1/2cos2x }

therefore Intergal of sinx cosx = -1/4 cos2x ?? right

I might be wrong, i never trust my working out on the net xD
 

sicmacao

Member
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
44
Gender
Male
HSC
2002
conics2008 said:
this is what im trying to say

sinx cos x = 1/2 sin2x right ???

therefore 1/2 S sin2x >> 1/2 {- 1/2cos2x }

therefore Intergal of sinx cosx = -1/4 cos2x ?? right

I might be wrong, i never trust my working out on the net xD
I asked myself such question not so long ago when I was a high school student.

The integral of an integrable function is unique up to a constant.

So the above makes sense, even though

-1/4 cos2x "looks" different from 1/2 sin^2(x), The difference between these two functions is only by a constant.

since (double angle formula) cos2x = 1 - 2 sin^2(x)

hence -1/4 cos2x = -1/4 + 1/2 sin^2(x)

Which demonstrates why S sinx cox dx has two "different" primitives.

In fact, integrating trigonometric functions in two different ways can often lead to a trigonometric identity.

For examples, using the t formula to find the integral of sec x lead to one primitive function while multiplying sec x by (sec x and tan x) will yield a "different" primitive.

This phenomenon occurs thanks to the existence of many trigonometric identities.

This could lead to interesting questions to be asked in exams and textbooks however such questions rarely appear anywhere or if they exist at all.

Perhaps the above conics2008's dilemma should be written in future mathematics textbooks.

Did you know there will be a new stage 6 mathematics syllabus to be implemented very soon. Differential equations will be included in 4 unit and statistics will be studied in depth in 2 unit and many other alterations. check www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au and have your say. Take a look at them in your leisure time. Some of you ponder doing accelerated mathematics in year 10 may think about doing HSC later if you favour these changes.
 

sicmacao

Member
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
44
Gender
Male
HSC
2002
vds700 said:
why the hell would anyone want to make things more comlicated than they need to be

sorry but my way of thinking is that the simplest way is the best way
This forum gives opportunity to the mathematically inclined student to discuss their mathematical ideas. It is interesting to see so many interesting mathematics being discussed during a time when students should be focusing ways of maximumising their marks. For those of you who LOVE mathematics or even wants to give up everything to excel to become the best of the best but only later on decide to become doctors, lawyers or accountants in their future career, HSC may be the last chance for them to enjoy the beauty of mathematics.

For those who wants to take mathematics as their future career or to become a high school mathematics teacher or even to become a mathematics researcher, there will be boundless opportunity to explore and appreciate mathematics if they chose to study mathematics at university. The priviledge to see Mathematics Professors in action is hard to beat. This will certainly add colour to your 3 or 4 years university life!
 
Last edited:

ronnknee

Live to eat
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
474
Gender
Male
HSC
2008


For some reason I doubt myself. Check my working for any mistakes.
 
Last edited:

conics2008

Active Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
1,228
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
For those who wants to take mathematics as their future career or to become a high school mathematics teacher or even to become a mathematics researcher, there will be boundless opportunity to explore and appreciate mathematics if they chose to study mathematics at university. The priviledge to see Mathematics Professors in action is hard to beat. This will certainly add colour to your 3 or 4 years university life!

this is what im aimin at, hopefully but i like to explore maths my own way not the text books way..
 

undalay

Active Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
1,002
Location
Ashfield
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
ronkee its sin^ m (x) cos^n (x)
not sin^ n(x) cos^n(x)

the powers are different.
 

conics2008

Active Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
1,228
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
ronnknee said:


For some reason I doubt myself. Check my working for any mistakes.


you got some sexy working lol..

Im kind of lazy to test, but i would suggest you try using n=2 for your I(n)

and then try to intergate this sin^2 (x) cos^2 (x) with limits 1 and 0 for both.. if they both get the same answer then your working out is valid....

I seriously cant be stuffed, im giving up hope for this question, i tried to do it at skool but no hope =)


ohh well thanks anyways.....
 

ronnknee

Live to eat
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
474
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
undalay said:
ronkee its sin^ m (x) cos^n (x)
not sin^ n(x) cos^n(x)

the powers are different.
conics2008 also asked for sin^m x.cos^m x, which should bring out the same results as sin^n x.cos^n x. The only difference is the parameter: in this case n instead of m; and this doesn't affect the results

For recurrence formulae with both m and n requires two parameters, and this is out of the HSC syllabus so I can't do
 

conics2008

Active Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
1,228
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
ronnknee said:
conics2008 also asked for sin^m x.cos^m x, which should bring out the same results as sin^n x.cos^n x. The only difference is the parameter: in this case n instead of m; and this doesn't affect the results

For recurrence formulae with both m and n requires two parameters, and this is out of the HSC syllabus so I can't do
hey buddy, i found an easy way out

go here

http://calc101.com/index.html

go to intergals and type in sin^2 [x] cos^2 [x]

watch how they do the reduction crap on sin^m [x] cos^n [x]

where m=n=2

thanks for your help guys, you need to extended your self beyond the hsc outlines.
 

ronnknee

Live to eat
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
474
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
conics2008 said:
I seriously cant be stuffed, im giving up hope for this question
conics2008 said:
you need to extended your self beyond the hsc outlines.
Right now our main focus is the HSC, correct? We need to first build up our fluency on what's required in the syllabus THEN we can go beyond
 

conics2008

Active Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
1,228
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
charlezzzard

dream on buddy, i gave the website already, and it gives the intergeral of sin^m cos ^m soo your abit too late....

its all good .. thanks for you'r input..
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top