Indigenous housing 'the worst' (2 Viewers)

[CSI: CRIMES ™]

By Saffron Howden
August 15, 2006 08:20pm
Article from: AAP

A UNITED Nations housing expert says indigenous Australians face a humanitarian crisis and are living in some of the worst conditions in the world.

UN Special Rapporteur on adequate housing, Miloon Kothari, was invited by the Federal Government to assess Australia's housing needs and has spent the last two weeks touring the country, including Aboriginal communities.
But he has delivered a damning preliminary assessment of the state of Aboriginal housing.


"I think that some of the conditions that I've seen are amongst the worst in the world both in terms of overcrowding, severe overcrowding, and in terms of lack of access to civic services," Mr Kothari said at the conclusion of his visit today.
"We saw conditions where ... there were up to 30 people living in a two-bedroom house.


"There were people living in houses ... where there was gaps in the walls, where you could really feel dampness in the homes. "We visited one community in the Alice Springs camps where people were living in tin shacks for the last 30 years and with no rights to their land and, of course, no services." Mr Kothari, an architect by training, said even in places where the housing stock was being replaced, it was not being done in consultation with the indigenous community. "They are designs that are essentially imposed on the indigenous (people)," he said. Indigenous Australians were facing an humanitarian crisis, Mr Kothari said. "People have been living in these conditions for decades."



In a series of preliminary recommendations to the Federal Government, Mr Kothari said a national response was needed to tackle the problems. But he was also critical of the Federal Government's controversial "shared responsibility agreements" under which some indigenous communities are forced to commit to behavioural change before they receive funding for services.
Mr Kothari said the agreements may be discriminatory.



"To have a shared responsibility seems to me to be very one-sided," he said.
"The terms of engaging with the indigenous are very different from how the government engages with the non-indigenous, for example. "So you would not have non-indigenous Australians having a condition placed on them that if you want a house, or if you want a school, then you have to give up this piece of land. "That's where I see the discrimination. I think there should be the same rules that apply."



Mr Kothari has called on the Government to develop a human rights-based national housing policy. Indigenous people should have more say through an independent, national, well-resourced body over housing policy.
He has also recommended Australia appoint a federal housing minister to address its "serious hidden national housing crisis" more broadly.


Tax breaks for wealthy homeowners should be reassessed, Mr Kothari said.
"We can see that the amount of subsidies that are going to what we would call the high end of the housing market, either through negative gearing or through the tax ... on capital gains," he said. "I would request the Government to ... reconsider all of those tax breaks and to see if some of those funds could be redirected to meeting the housing needs of the lower income group."


He will report formally to the UN early next year.






http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20143228-2,00.html

 

[Optophobia]

and are living in some of the worst conditions in the world.

They choose to.

"There were people living in houses ... where there was gaps in the walls, where you could really feel dampness in the homes. "We visited one community in the Alice Springs camps where people were living in tin shacks for the last 30 years and with no rights to their land and, of course, no services."

"Tin" shacks? Well that's an improvement on the wooden ones they originally gave them, which they then pulled down and used for firewood.

 

[banco55]

Clearly what we need to fix this problem is more welfare spending.

 

[JaredR]

We have given them the right of self-determination; the notion that they can decide the running of their own affairs. No Aboriginal wants to find themsleves dependent on a Non-Aboriginal government.

Indigenous welfare is a universal problem. This whole concept of Reconciliation works both ways.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

"The terms of engaging with the indigenous are very different from how the government engages with the non-indigenous, for example. "So you would not have non-indigenous Australians having a condition placed on them that if you want a house, or if you want a school, then you have to give up this piece of land. "That's where I see the discrimination. I think there should be the same rules that apply."

I don't know about 'giving up land', that seems quite odd to me... but the general concept where aboriginals have to get their children to go to school, exhibit a decent level of cleanliness etc before being given more things seems sound to me. Furthermore, I have no experience with aboriginal communities in remote communities, but what happens in aboriginal communities in say, mt druitt, is that houses are built for them - they are then let to go to ruin, either through lack of upkeep or property abuse by others in the community. It is not as simple a situation as I think Mr Kothari puts it.

 

[banco55]

Government welfare money should come with strings attached. If they want to remove the discrimation they should attach strings to the money the government provides to everyone.

 

[Gurlpower]

im sick to death of Aboriginal peoples ranting.

they live in squalid housing because they choose too.

They constantly disrespect, racially abuse the greater population who supply them free housing, healthcare etc.

They refuse to let go of the past, we are a multicultural contry now.

There culture does not measure u in a modern world. Im sorry but they did not progress past the paleothic era.

They coul not harness the land, invent the wheel, build adequate shelter, you name it they didnt do it.

They ruined rainforests with the incredibly lazy practice of backburning (to catch animals for eating), which destroyed most of Australia ancient rainforest.

They were cannibalistic, killed at will, and were like they are today, animals.

 

[Comrade nathan]

They constantly disrespect, racially abuse the greater population

It is a hard life being white.

They have a different view of life.

cassie.bullock. is referring to Indigenous rights. Making the government accountably for years of oppression, which relies on modern terms and concept, like the UN genicide convention.

 

[Comrade nathan]

they have a different view; some of them may see everyone who arrived post 1788 as being here illegitimately. Those who kicked them off their land. They may be against multi culturalism more so than most whites.

You don't need a different way of life to demand Indigenous rights. There is Universal movement of Indigenous people to protect their rights. The UN is heavily involved in this and supports most Inidenous rights, to a certain point. You don't need to understand Indigenous thinking to know they have been treated wrongfully in the past.

And by the way, it was European court that overturned terra nullius. The Indigenous rights movement is heavily influence by western bourgeois ideas.

 

[banco55]

You don't need a different way of life to demand Indigenous rights. There is Universal movement of Indigenous people to protect their rights. The UN is heavily involved in this and supports most Inidenous rights, to a certain point. You don't need to understand Indigenous thinking to know they have been treated wrongfully in the past.

And by the way, it was European court that overturned terra nullius. The Indigenous rights movement is heavily influence by western bourgeois ideas.

The rights movement is a western idea full stop.

 

[Comrade nathan]

The rights movement is a western idea full stop.

Elaborate, or at least give justification for such an arrogant post.

 

[banco55]

Elaborate, or at least give justification for such an arrogant post.

The rights movement is basically an extension of enlightenment ideas. Though you can make the argument that protestantism had a lot to do with it as well.

 

[Comrade nathan]

Indigenous rights movements or rights movements in general?

Because most Indigenous rights movements are bit different to the normal capitalist "democracy" model. They often want collective rights more then individual rights, they want to be seen as a group who were before a settler nation. In some cases they want a veto, and do get a veto action against government action. Though bourgeois/modern capitalist ideas, have the idea that the government is the representative of the majority of people.

You could call Martin Luther King's rights movement being soley based on Christain/enlightenment ideas. But rights movements which call for nationhood and state, and Indigenous rights movements go beyond these basic priciples.

 

[banco55]

Indigenous rights movements or rights movements in general?

Because most Indigenous rights movements are bit different to the normal capitalist "democracy" model. They often want collective rights more then individual rights, they want to be seen as a group who were before a settler nation. In same cases they want a veto, and do get a veto action against government action. Though bourgeois/modern capitalist ideas, sees the government as teh representative of the modern people.

You could call Martin Luther King's rights movement being soley based on Christain/enlightenment ideas. But rights movements which call for nationhood and state and Indigenous rights movements go beyond these basic priciples.

I'm saying the concept of "rights" ie right to freedom of speech, right to self-determination are western concepts. Yes MLK's rights movement drew its legitimacy from western ideas about rights. In practice what you describe as "indigenous rights" movements have often degenerated into romantic primitivism especially with regards to the radical chic westerners who tend to push i"ndigenous rights".

 

[Comrade nathan]

I was saying that it's not exactly that easy for them to let go of the past OR accept a multi cultural country.

And your reasoning was that "They have a different view of life", which was very naive. So i gave an argument against that. So far you haven't gave an argument for you reasoning, just stated a poor opinion. So enough with being subtle with normal debating culture (i assumed you would give an arguement after i criticised), would you like to explain why Aboriginal view of life lead to the Australian Indigenous rights movement? And how these ideas are not univerisal in a neo-capitalist world, which involves many Indigenous rights movements.

 

[Generator]

im sick to death of Aboriginal peoples ranting.

they live in squalid housing because they choose too.

You're ignoring the history of neglect and misguided/ill-fated policy decisions that have created the conditions within which many indigenous Australians find themselves within today. It's hardly a simple choice.

They constantly disrespect, racially abuse the greater population who supply them free housing, healthcare etc.

They were cannibalistic, killed at will, and were like they are today, animals.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

They refuse to let go of the past, we are a multicultural contry now.

Yet you're an ignorant bigot. If this is such a great multicultural country, why is that so?

There culture does not measure u in a modern world. Im sorry but they did not progress past the paleothic era.

They coul not harness the land, invent the wheel, build adequate shelter, you name it they didnt do it.

To the best of my knowledge, such technological progress did not occur because there was no need to given their isolation and the rich and complex nature of their socio-cultural system. The fact that indigenous Australians lived at a certain technological level isn't to say that they were any less deserving of the land, it's just to say that their world existed in stark contrast to that of the Europeans.

They ruined rainforests with the incredibly lazy practice of backburning (to catch animals for eating), which destroyed most of Australia ancient rainforest.

Humans in all parts of the world have long changed their enviornment in order to suit their own needs (need I point to the forests of Europe?), so I really don't know what you are trying to prove with this point.

 

[Comrade nathan]

We weren't arguing if Aboriginal people had a different view of life. I ask you to expain your ideas, you have failed to do that.

 

[sam04u]

In legal studies we're learning about Indigenous people, and using case-studies in particular we can draw a pretty good picture about how they think.

1. As soon as the european settlers came here they declared 'terra nullius', which stripped them of all land titles. This was left unchanged until 1992, the Mabo case. Where they finally had rights to certain parts of land 'reserves' which was put in their control.

2. There was a whole generation which was stolen, this couldn't have had good effects on the Aboriginal people at the time.

3. They were discriminated against, and till this day are treated as second class citizens in most aspects of life. ie(Education, Occupation, and even Entertainment).

.: Therefore they rightfully should feel as though they're discriminated against, and naturally 'Rebel'.

Solutions:
1. Ban Alcohol and Tobacco and make it harder to obtain Illegal Drugs.
2. Restrict 'unemployed people' from gambling mid-high ammounts of money.
(Lol, Islam sais gambling and drug/achohol/tobacco abuse is haram) Irony.

Oh, I just mentioned that because lately many troubled aboriginal people have been converting to Islam and giving up their old ways .

 

[Not-That-Bright]

.: Therefore they rightfully should feel as though they're discriminated against, and naturally 'Rebel'.

I'd like to point out now tho, that while it is understandable why some aboriginal people feel left behind by our legal system, there are those that instead of totally rebelling against / ignoring our legal system, are aiming for change.

 

[sam04u]

Yeah, Great people those . (I didn't mean all, alot of aboriginal people are nice, good people. Unfortunately, some are caught up in social disorders.)