Exploitation or unemployment - what do you think? (2 Viewers)

[Generator]

Exploitation or unemployment: the 'choice' young people face

Exploitation or unemployment: the 'choice' young people face
April 25, 2006

Employers have most of the power in their dealings with young workers and many bosses are prepared to use it, write Lisa Pryor and Debra Jopson.

Is this a reasonable representation of what many young people must now face in the workforce? What of the future given the effective removal of the awards system? What do you think?

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Edit (29/5/2006)

A casual approach

A casual approach
April 29, 2006

Untrained, vulnerable and powerless, teenagers are drifting from one work disaster to another, writes Debra Jopson.

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This is a thread for a discussion about the nature of youth employment. Should you wish to discuss the IR reform agenda in full, please take your comments to one of the following threads -

Employment: IR reforms -- anyone been hit?
NCAP: The official IR reform thread!

 

[loquasagacious]

I think it is completely reasonable for an employer to say work for a hypothetical $8 an hour rather than the $12 you were on or I'll fire you.

The employee can leave, you dont have to work for less than you want to, the fact is that you are competing with others though if someone else will do the job for less then so be it.

I think the only changes we need to make is to make commerce a cumpolsory subject and teach students about the workplace more.

 

[transcendent]

Yeah, not everyone likes financial studies aka me. I deplore the market. I make money, pay for stuff and that's that. Stop fucking complicating things.

 

[gerhard]

it depends how young we are talking.

if we're talking about ages where the majority of kids live at home, then who cares if kids get exploited. they dont need the money to survive most likely. if they dont like it, then alot of the time they could just quit and not work. working isnt a necessity like it is with people living in their own home/renting.

 

[spell check]

cumpolsory

looks like making English "cumpolsory" didn't do much good

 

[gnrlies]

The whole question of whether employers are going to take advantage of workers is totally flawed

Workers hold the power in australia. Not because theres some precendent made in 1907 that says so, but because we have a skills shortage in australia, and any competitive business will want to keep its good staff.

If your a bad employee, well HAHA you suck. Your laziness and reliance on your peers to support you has finally come to an end, and your burdon on society is no longer required.

As for young people, I think the thing is that they dont hold a great deal of bargaining power. But then on the other hand this reflects their skills. This is fair enuff. Young employees get more and more skilled over time, and their wages will reflect this. Weve all got to start somewhere. To cry about being on a starting wage is just whinging.

 

[transcendent]

Yeah employers are REALLY going to raise your pay I get paid flat rate whether I'm busting my arse or working overtime. How about you money loving disc jockeys can it because I don't see anyone else arguing against you on your 'OMG I love the new IR reform' debate.

 

[R15I23D05D14Y]

Workers hold the power in australia. Not because theres some precendent made in 1907 that says so, but because we have a skills shortage in australia, and any competitive business will want to keep its good staff.

I agree with the post, but I think something extra is that the cases of 'exploitation' are all about people with absolutely no skills. The complaint is that people who manifestly have no skill are expecting to be paid as though they are doing something.

It is very hard on an employer (no matter how obviously a twisted and evil person who eats nails for breakfast they may be) to be expected to pay money for essentially a pair of hands. Skill-less people are only employable if they are basically free.

 

[yy]

I think it is completely reasonable for an employer to say work for a hypothetical $8 an hour rather than the $12 you were on or I'll fire you.

The employee can leave, you dont have to work for less than you want to, the fact is that you are competing with others though if someone else will do the job for less then so be it.

I think the only changes we need to make is to make commerce a cumpolsory subject and teach students about the workplace more.

123, that's pretty much my view

 

[transcendent]

Oh well lets look at this from another perspective. It's absolutely alright for someone with great skills to be fired because the CEO wants to make shareholders happy.

 

[walrusbear]

am i to understand that the business world behaves altruistically?
with a free market we will all be paid according to our real value?

 

[santaslayer]

Most of the arguments tend to favour the employer at the moment. I don't disagree with the majority of issues raised but I do remind people of the fact that going below the award wage will prove detrimental to some of the population.

The AWARD wage factors in the essential amount of income one will need so that they do not fall behind the rest of the population (so to speak). It is essential, IMO, that such wages be maintained. Not everyone can afford basic essentials even with the AWARD in place. Not everyone lives alone and pays for themselves only.

Other than that, I do not disagree with most of the points raised.

 

[Generator]

You'd be an excellent politician, Malfoy - twisting everything to a degree that beggars belief is a true skill.

The above post is pointless, because you have done nothing more than state an obvious truth that nobody would bother to contest. Thanks for implying that a number of people would, though.

 

[loquasagacious]

Oh well lets look at this from another perspective. It's absolutely alright for someone with great skills to be fired because the CEO wants to make shareholders happy.

Yes that's fine.

If they are that great then they'll find another job.

 

[walrusbear]

Young people don't necessarily have the skill sets needed in the workforce, so when they get paid a smaller wage, it's relative to what their skill levels are. You'd be amazed at the amount of younger people who are surprised they're getting six or seven dollars an hour flipping burgers or working retail - just about anyone can do it. I don't understand, therefore, the reasoning that IR reforms will mean young people will be exploited.

you don't understand that fixing a big population of unskilled workers to low pay rates is exploitation?

 

[walrusbear]

Yes that's fine.

If they are that great then they'll find another job.

i love how many people comfortably say this
these magic jobs where people DO get paid reasonably
it's just passing the buck

 

[R15I23D05D14Y]

I find it interesting that the first example in the given article is a complaint that the wages for Sunday were being standardised with all the other days.
That doesn't really seem like a case for exploitation. The actual wages, maybe, but the complaint she was making, not really.

 

[transcendent]

Oh lets not forget the fact that those 40 year old bricklayers who have been working for the past lets say 23 years in that industry are now without a job cause there aren't any more jobs for them or they have been outsourced to younger or immigrant workers for less money. Pick a trade, any trade and if your lucky it wont be pulled from under your feet. Those without skills can't pay for the training, they need the money just to get by so they will find whatever jobs are there.

 

[loquasagacious]

Damn those immigrants stealing our jobs.....

 

[ZabZu]

am i to understand that the business world behaves altruistically?
with a free market we will all be paid according to our real value?

The free market CAN be very unfair towards particular sections of society, in this case unskilled workers. The minimum wage is enforced to protect workers from market wage pressures and so they can earn an income they can survive on (and remain sane).

With the free market the wages of unskilled workers workers (eg. KFC, Subway, kmart, etc) will decrease significantly. Workers will be forced to work ridiculous hours, like blue collar workers do in America. Even a small amount of skills would increase income. The wages of highly skilled people such as accountants, lawyers and doctors will remain the same.