Difference between Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Ancient History (Hons). (1 Viewer)

[Fake-Name]

Hey, I know that one or two people on this board are currently doing, or completing their B.A of Ancient history. I had previously thought that the course had been shut down in 2011, but it looks like it's being run in 2012.
http://www.courses.mq.edu.au/2012/U...Honours+degree+of+Bachelor+of+Ancient+History

I am just wondering what is the difference between an honours degree of Bachelor of Ancient History and a Bachelor of Arts. It appears that the same courses are on offer, however the ancient history honours course goes for a year longer and requires a little higher ATAR (UAI).

 

[Fake-Name]

It says the course is an undergraduate degree. Maybe its part of the Bachelor of arts but only runs on the final year. This would make sense since its got the exact same courses on offer as the arts. However it has an atar requirement?

Thanks for that.

 

[izzy88]

To my knowledge the exact same subjects are on offer in a Bachelor of Ancient History (Hons) as a Bachelor of Arts. However, in a Bachelor of Ancient History there will be more requirements to get the degree eg. you have to undertake ancient languages, do specific ancient history subjects, archeology etc. In an arts degree, you could still do that, or you could you could choose to do other subjects/broader areas from across Arts (eg. modern history, english, politics etc).

Furthermore, a Bachelor of Ancient History (Hons) is the same length of time as a Bachelor of Arts (Honours). It is a three year undergrad degree plus a fourth honours year (where you do some coursework, but also write a thesis). You could still do a Bachelor of Arts, major in Ancient History and then do an honours in ancient history.

However, if you really want to go in academia in ancient history, then you could chose the more focused Bachelor of Ancient History, rather than just a BA.

Hope that makes sense. My info though is a couple of years old (when I was looking into it in 2006).

edit: this situation is similar to, for example, a Bachelor of International Studies - most of the subjects that you do in a B International Studies you can do in a Bachelor of Arts - however universities like marketing degrees in different ways - and when you go to a future employer, you can say, I did a B Ancient History rather than a more general BA. Its marketing - and a feel that there will be people that want to just do ancient history for your degree - and it also is a degree which is focused on getting you the skills necessary to do postgrad in ancient history.

 

[-may-cat-]

The difference comes down to
- The structure and requirements of the program of study.
- The way in which you are admitted to Honours.

For a B. Arts the requirements are as follows:

B. Arts General requirements:
Minimum number of credit points for the degree 68
Minimum number of credit points at 200 level or above 38
Minimum number of credit points at 300 level or above 18
Completion of a Qualifying Major for the Bachelor of Arts
Completion of a designated People unit
Completion of a designated Planet unit (these are new, they are units outside of your usual area of study, you can find a list of them here: http://www.handbook.mq.edu.au/2011/Units/PeopleAndPlanet)

So then if you want to major in Ancient History, say Egypt and the Near East, you must meet these requirements:

Requirements for the Major Ancient History, Egypt and the Near East:
Completion of a minimum of 24 credit points including the following prescribed units:

100 level: 6cp from AHIS140 - AHIS199

200 level: 6cp from AHIS240 - AHIS299

300 level: Capstone Unit: Egypt and the Near East (AHIS399 - 3 cp)
9cp from AHIS340 - AHIS398

TOTAL CREDIT POINTS REQUIRED TO SATISFY THIS MAJOR: 24

Notice that even after you complete this major you still have plenty credit points left over in the overall B. Arts to perhaps complete another major or dip into electives (French or German would be ones to pursue). See how the program of study is very flexible? You simply pick what seems best for you.

Now, a B. Ancient History is a bit different. The general requirements are as follows:
General requirements:

Minimum number of credit points required for the degree 96
Minimum number of credit points required at 200 level or above 60
Minimum number of credit points required at 300 level or above 45
Completion of a designated People unit
Completion of a designated Planet unit
Completion of other specific minimum requirements as set out below

Instead of majoring in Ancient History like in a B. Arts, you must meet a different set of requirements (the 'program of study'):

Specific minimum requirements:
100 level
Three of:
- AHIS100 Greek Society 500-300 BC: Oikos and Polis (3)
- AHIS110 Rome: From Republic to Empire (3)
- AHIS120 Antiquity's Heirs: Barbarian Europe, Byzantium, and Islam (3)
- AHIS140 Myth in the Ancient World (3)
- AHIS170 Egyptian Archaeology: An Introduction (3)
TOTAL: 9cp

200 level
Two of:
- AHIS208Ancient Greek A (3)
- AHIS218 Latin A (3)
- AHIS258 Classical Hebrew A (3)
- AHIS268 Coptic I (3)
- AHIS278 Egyptian Hieroglyphs A (3)
Two of:
- AHIS209 Ancient Greek B (3)
- AHIS219 Latin B (3)
- AHIS259 Classical Hebrew B (3)
- AHIS269 Coptic II (3)
- AHIS279 Egyptian Hieroglyphs B (3)
OR
- GMN295 German Reading for Special Purposes 1 (3)
- FRN295 French Reading for Special Purposes (3)

Required:
- AHIS230 Archaeology and Society: Archaeological Evidence (3)
OR
-AHIS280 Ancient Egyptian Culture and Society (3)
TOTAL: 15 cp

300 level
Capstone Unit: AHIS339 Greece, Rome, Late Antiquity (3)
OR
Capstone Unit: AHIS399 Egypt and the Near East (3)
Required: 18cp from AHIS units at 300 level
TOTAL: 21cp

400 level (this is honours)
Required: 24cp from AHIS units at 400 level
TOTAL 24cp

Electives (at any level so long as i meet the general requirements, Minimum number of credit points required at 200 level or above : 60 etc)
Required: 27cp
TOTAL 27 cp

OVERALL TOTAL: 96 cp

See how the B. Ancient History is much more structured than the B. Arts? There are quite a few core units and you have to study ad well as 2 ancient languages. Mind you, you are still given a nice 24 cp chunk for electives to branch out and study other things.

The other big thing you might have noticed is that the honours year is built into the undergraduate degree, that is why it is called the the Bachelor of Ancient History (honours). However, you still have to meet GPA (grade point average - sort of but not really like an HSC ATAR) requirements to be admitted to honours:

Requirements for entry into 400 level: overall GPA of 2.5; GPA at 300 level of 3.0.

Not too sure how admittance to honours works for a B. Arts, but the main difference is that it is seperate from the B. Arts undergraduate degree.

Hopefully that wasn't too confusing and cleared things up for you. Let me know if something doesn't make sense.

 

[Fake-Name]

Awesome explanation!

Just one thing, If I did a B.Ancient history would I be able to choose courses from the B.Arts with the extra 24cp. My friend is claiming that if I studied the B.Ancient history, I wouldnt study any other non-ancient history units during my undergraduate degree.

Edit: Just read Izzy88's response, I think my friend is right.

Thanks for the extensive explanation!

 

[-may-cat-]

I think you're a bit confused with how units and electives work. Units are not exclusive to one degree or another; it's not as if i'm not allowed to take units because they 'belong' to a B. Arts. I can choose any unit i want, so long as i meet the pre-requisites for that unit and it meets the requirements for my degree..

For example, electives allow you to branch out and study things that might not be particularly related to your main area of study . In a B. AHIS i have 24cp worth of electives. If i wanted to i could take electives in modern history, law, economics, biology, psychology, Lithuanian; whatever i wanted to do.

So in short, no, your friend is wrong. You can use your electives to study whatever you want, you are not restricted.

 

[Fake-Name]

ok that's awesome then. As much as I want to focus on Ancient history, I also wanted to take English and modern history units too.

I thought you did B.AHIS. Can I ask if you prefer it over the B.Arts? If you could re-choose would you have kept B.AHIS over B.A?

 

[-may-cat-]

For me the B.AHIS turned out to be the right choice as it steered me towards ancient languages, which i would never previously have seen myself doing but now love. That said, it really doesn't matter which one you choose, the name of the degree is not as big of a deal as you think it is. You could probably take the exact same subjects (or close to it) in both degrees and while the process of getting into honours would be different between the two in the end it wouldn't matter.

 

[izzy88]

ok that's awesome then. As much as I want to focus on Ancient history, I also wanted to take English and modern history units too.

I thought you did B.AHIS. Can I ask if you prefer it over the B.Arts? If you could re-choose would you have kept B.AHIS over B.A?

Sorry I didn't mean to confuse you. In the B Ancient Hist you can still do some electives (24crd pts from may-cat's response), but that is less than if you just did a B Arts. I'm not sure how many credit points subjects are at Macquarie, but 24crd pts I believe generally equals four subjects - so you could choose 4 subjects which aren't ancient history/ancient languages - this would be less than if you did BA.

However, if you know you want to do ancient history - then go for the B Anc Hist. If you are unsure/want to perhaps be able to experience a broader range of arts subjects, then it may be better to go for BA. In the end, you can still go on to do postgrad ancient history study with either degree. The B Anc Hist really only puts you ahead in that you have had mandatory language study - which is generally necessary to do postgrad work, but can be caught up on at a later date by, for example, doing a one year diploma in ancient languages before you start postgrad.

Just for info's sake: I did a BA at usyd, majored in ancient history and did honours in ancient history. I am not going on to do postgrad study - however many of my friends from honours are. Most of them are however doing a one year diploma of languages before going to UK or other australian universities to do either masters or phd's programs. This is to ensure they are up to scratch on the ancient languages. By doing a B Anc Hist, where the languages are required, you may be able to skip that diploma step - or if in your BA you do languages, then that helps. I guess the thing they don't tell you (at usyd anyway) when you start out majoring in ancient history, is that if you really want to go into academia (for classics anyway), you need to learn both Latin and Ancient Greek (I only did Latin, and not for long enough to get proficient).

 

[Fake-Name]

Thanks for the replies guys, that's pretty great. I think I'm looking to do the B.AHIS now.

Thankyou for your replies.

 

[-may-cat-]

24 cp of electives equates to about 8 units at MQ, a full year of full-time study. Also, nothing is stopping you from taking ancient languages in a B. Arts, the only difference between the two degrees is that in the B.AHIS you don't have a choice in the matter. IMO it's not really much of an advantage as there is absolutely nothing stopping you from studying ancient languages in depth through a B. Arts. These degrees are just shells at face value, it's what you do with them and get out of them that determines how useful they are.

 

[Fake-Name]

24 cp of electives equates to about 8 units at MQ, a full year of full-time study. Also, nothing is stopping you from taking ancient languages in a B. Arts, the only difference between the two degrees is that in the B.AHIS you don't have a choice in the matter. IMO it's not really much of an advantage as there is absolutely nothing stopping you from studying ancient languages in depth through a B. Arts. These degrees are just shells at face value, it's what you do with them and get out of them that determines how useful they are.

Yes I see that now.

Seems like the B.AHIS is more restrictive than the B.arts offering me less of a choice. However I do like saying: "I'm doing a Bachelor of Ancient History" Rather than "I'm doing a Bachelor of Arts."

 

[AsyLum]

Yes I see that now.

Seems like the B.AHIS is more restrictive than the B.arts offering me less of a choice. However I do like saying: "I'm doing a Bachelor of Ancient History" Rather than "I'm doing a Bachelor of Arts."

Not going to help you out in the academic world unfortunately, you gotta get that Masters/PhD to really rank if you are going to be an academic, just by the by

 

[Fake-Name]

Of course! I know that it has no real meaning since the subject pretty much mimics the B.A.
I'd definitely want to do Masters/PHD at MQ or elsewhere that focuses on ancient history.