Commercial Law as a career (1 Viewer)

[cricketfan10]

hey guys, just need some help regarding commercial law... so far i know the following..and it's not really a whole lot but anywho -

1) its business law (duh)
2) im most likely doing commerce/law (just depends on whether or not ANU increase their UAI req for Law from 95 or not, i got a 96 enter)
3) how a business works and its functions etc interest me..or well i kinda find it pretty straight forward to understand so far (as far as vce business management goes)
4) therefore, atm, commercial law is what id like to get into in future

what id like to know is, and some of the ques. may sound like im getting ahead of myself but -

1) once im done with undergrad comm/law and i still want to pursue commercial law, is it advisable to do post graduate study? all i know is that if i do further study i may be more highly desired as an employee (but ofcourse this could be completely wrong, i dont know)

2) is it hard to get a job in this field?

3) what are the hours like? is it true that people in this particular field (not law in general) work like dogs? that's what ive heard..

and this is a bit unrelated, i think, what does the term 'in house' mean? im not sure if it means what i think it means, heh.

thats the questions ive got so far, i know i have more but its just slipping my mind at the moment
but if i could get any information/help regarding my questions here that would be greatly appreciated

cheers

 

[neo o]

Commercial law is mainly application of sale of goods legislation. What you're thinking of is corporate law, which generally covers everything from director's duties to securities trading.

1) Besides getting your practical legal training, which most people will need to do after they graduate if they want to practice, not many people move to a masters or PhD straight out of university.

2) Nope, it's fairly easy. All of the big law firms and alot of government departments deal with corporate law.

3) It depends on where you're working. You'll work heaps of hours at a top tier law firm like Freehills or Minter Ellison, but at a government department like ASIC or the ACCC you'll be working a standard 40 hour week, with some fairly generous leave entitlements.

4) An in house lawyer is one who is employed internally by a corporation. For example, PWC have their own legal department(s).

 

[RogueAcademic]

1) Besides getting your practical legal training, which most people will need to do after they graduate if they want to practice, not many people move to a masters or PhD straight out of university.

I want to add that having a masters or PhD doesn't really increase your chances of a law firm job unless, I think, you have had years of experience already. As a fresh graduate applying for traineeship/clerkship, the law firms will generally look to your first law degree and you'll start at the bottom with every other law graduate.

People who do a masters degree in law (coursework) are generally people who have had a few years experience as a lawyer and they want to increase their knowledge on a particular legal area they are already familiar with, or they want to gain some expertise in a completely new legal area.

People who do PhDs are generally people who are interested in a career in academia, say as a law lecturer at a university.

2) Nope, it's fairly easy. All of the big law firms and alot of government departments deal with corporate law.

It's still quite competitive though, I would think.

 

[Omnidragon]

3) It depends on where you're working. You'll work heaps of hours at a top tier law firm like Freehills or Minter Ellison, but at a government department like ASIC or the ACCC you'll be working a standard 40 hour week, with some fairly generous leave entitlements.

well if you're at freehills' M&A dept

a lot corporate lawyers finish at 6 or 7 and rarely/never work weekends
unless that's what you mean by heaps of hours

 

[neo o]

well if you're at freehills' M&A dept

a lot corporate lawyers finish at 6 or 7 and rarely/never work weekends
unless that's what you mean by heaps of hours

Relative to the public sector it is. I've read a friend's ACCC work agreement, and they're actually NOT ALLOWED to do more than a certain amount of hours per week. They actually knock off at a weird time like 4:43, to account for the time it takes for them to get to the bus/their cars

 

[RogueAcademic]

They actually knock off at a weird time like 4:43, to account for the time it takes for them to get to the bus/their cars

Get outta here...

 

[Cookie182]

Would these gov. lawyers be on like half the salary though?

 

[cricketfan10]

Commercial law is mainly application of sale of goods legislation. What you're thinking of is corporate law, which generally covers everything from director's duties to securities trading.

1) Besides getting your practical legal training, which most people will need to do after they graduate if they want to practice, not many people move to a masters or PhD straight out of university.

2) Nope, it's fairly easy. All of the big law firms and alot of government departments deal with corporate law.

3) It depends on where you're working. You'll work heaps of hours at a top tier law firm like Freehills or Minter Ellison, but at a government department like ASIC or the ACCC you'll be working a standard 40 hour week, with some fairly generous leave entitlements.

4) An in house lawyer is one who is employed internally by a corporation. For example, PWC have their own legal department(s).

ah yes, i thought they were the same :S

thanks for your help though got a few more questions..

1) like you said, it's fairly easy to get a job at a big law firm if you're going into corporate law. but is this true right after you finish your degree at uni or is there some middle process you have to go through? if that makes any sense.

2) i was just having a look at salary and stuff on the mycareer site, for corporate law, and apparently you can earn up to 400k and and go as low as 55k per year. any idea whether that 55k is for maybe for first years or a result of working at a government or low tier firm? (im assuming working at govt/in the public sector means less pay in comparison to working in the private sector).

3) as you said, working at a top tier firm will mean a lot of working hours. how much of this work needs to be definitely done at the firm? is it possible to work at home?

thats all ive got for now, thanks to everyone whos helped

 

[Marmalade.]

When I started, I wasn't thinking about any of this.

 

[.L]

I am planning on doing the same double degree at the ANU this year also. Hopefully we both get in! The questions and answers in this topic have been very informative, thanks to all those who have contributed.

 

[neo o]

Get outta here...

I didn't believe it either until I'd read it.

RE: Salaries, the government lawyers tend to start on $45,000 which goes up to $55,000 after training. It's about $10,000 less than the starting salaries of graduates at bigger Sydney firms. The real catch is where the salaries of government lawyers caps off, at around $100,000. After that pay level you need to start moving through executive pay levels, which takes a long time and by that point some of your more successful colleagues in private practice are earning way more

My 2c though, for what it's worth, is that school-leavers really need to stop worrying about salaries and career options and start concerning themselves with how they can best enjoy and take advantage of their relatively short time at university. If you work hard, you'll do well with a law degree. It's as simple as that.

 

[RogueAcademic]

They actually knock off at a weird time like 4:43, to account for the time it takes for them to get to the bus/their cars

I mean I've never heard of what you've described above. If anything, it's not unknown for late nights and unpaid overtime to happen too.

By the way, there are a range 'government lawyers' who earn different pay packets under different salary agreements, depending on which government dept it is. So the ACCC lawyers may have a different salary structure than ASIC lawyers, who have different salary structures from OPP lawyers.

I also agree that most high school kids really have no idea what they're talking about when they go on about high salaries. It's not like they've ever had to work a real job before, it's not like they've had to pay utility bills, budget for weekly groceries, mortgage, interest rates etc. Most high school kids have not had independent life experience and they have no idea what it's like to earn $30k, or $50k, or $80k or $100k. So when I hear them talk about 'high salaries', it's like young girls talking about wanting to wear their mother's makeup or young boys wanting to wear their daddy's suit.

 

[hfis]

Haha yeah, I agree. $55k is by no means "low", and the majority of law graduates would probably start on less than that (myself included, though for the record I turned down a government job that started at $62k and went from there).

You won't see $400k until you make partner, period. Also,

is it true that people in this particular field (not law in general) work like dogs?

Lawyers in general work like dogs and get treated like crap. Those salaries exist for a reason.

 

[RogueAcademic]

$55k is definitely above the average Australian salary and it's certainly a very good salary to live by that will give you more than enough disposal income to spend. If you have a salary of $55k and yet you're struggling to pay the bills, there's something seriously wrong. You're either a drug user or you're an addicted gambler, or you're delusional and attempting to live beyond your means.

 

[cricketfan10]

lol well i said some of my questions would seem like im getting ahead of myself - i just didnt want to make the same mistake i did with vce where i had no idea what i was gonna do and was therefore not really motivated.

anyhow, thanks for the help!

 

[RogueAcademic]

lol well i said some of my questions would seem like im getting ahead of myself - i just didnt want to make the same mistake i did with vce where i had no idea what i was gonna do and was therefore not really motivated.

anyhow, thanks for the help!

Sorry, I wasn't speaking specifically about you. There's nothing wrong with ambition and wanting to be successful. Some kids on BoS get hung up about specific 'high salaries' and other sticking points which are in reality quite irrelevant though.