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Abolishing Honours Degrees from 2013 (1 Viewer)

Begbie4017

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I am just passing on this message from http://www.facebook.com/groups/38712102000/ I dont know any more please direct questions to Margaret


A Message for Students and Staff at Macquarie University. Please share this with anyone affected.

As many of you are aware, Macquarie University is abolishing Honours from 2013. The university cannot guarantee that there will be any Honours intake in mid-2012, and after that, it's gone. This is part of a national plan, but Macquarie has put its hand up be a guinea pig. There are financial incentives which appear to trump other concerns.

The university is replacing Honours with a two Masters degree which will be the path to doing a PhD. The first year of this will be coursework (24 CPs at 800 level). The "carrot" will be a scholarship covering the two years of that degree.

Very few undergraduates have been notified of this formally--only those who have attended some Honours/Post-Grad Information Sessions. It's pretty shabby that everyone else is being kept in the dark. I suspect it's because the administration knows there will be much anger among students.

It seems the university is aware that it is going to lose some of its potential post-grads from within the university, but is prepared to sacrifice us because the economic incentives are great due to a funding deal with the government. One aspect of this that particularly concerns me is the haste with which it is being introduced. I can't see why there couldn't have been greater lead-time, with those who'd been planning to do Honours being able to, while the Masters program is introduced. Another issue is exactly what the Masters units will entail. The units won't be able to replicate what we've studied in undergrad, but will have to be completely new material. How they're going to find the staff to compile and teach these units, while they're simultaneously cutting funding is somewhat of a mystery. So it's a staff issue too.

I have written to Jim Piper and the head of the HDR unit (Dr Ren Yi), asking them to set up an information session for all Science undergraduates, so we are all aware of our position, and where we can convey our feelings on this issue. Obviously, many of us need to begin looking elsewhere if we want to do Honours. The least the university can do is let everyone know where we stand, as soon as possible.

In the meantime, it'd be great if you could let me know if this is going to adversely affect you, and in what ways. You can email me privately via margaret dot morgan at students dot mq dot edu dot au . When we have the meeting, I'd like to be able to present to the university evidence as to exactly how this is impacting on the student body. If the meeting doesn't take place, we'll organise our own.

Also, please share a version of this message on Blackboard in any units you're taking. You can give my email details, and I will continue to collate people's opinions on this, and how it is going to affect them personally. I won't use names, so will protect people's privacy.

You might also be interested in attending a meeting being held by the National Tertiary Education Union on Wednesday 26 October, 10.30am in the NTEU meeting room (W3A401). The union is very supportive of the students in this, and of course of the staff who'll have to construct and teach the new units. Hope to see you there!

I look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers,

Margaret Morgan
 
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xeuyrawp

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As much as I despise much of the Macquarie executive and administration, I'd like to point out that this is completely misrepresenting what's happening.
 
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-may-cat-

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Could you enlighten us as to what is happening then?
 

-may-cat-

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I'm assuming this wouldn't affect those already enrolled in honours degrees, i didn't think they could alter the program you originally enrolled in?
 

Fake-Name

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Not quite sure what's this all about... but could this affect me If I want to do a B.Anc (Hons) in 2012?
 
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xeuyrawp

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Could you enlighten us as to what is happening then?
No, I can't I'm afraid; I have less to do with the university than you do.

My point is that the NTEU is, once again, making wildly mis-representative, speculative accusations and should actually wait to see what's happening.
 

Atlas

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Could you enlighten us as to what is happening then?
I found this response from Macquarie to another student's question about the Honours program:

"Macquarie University is currently considering whether to adopt the international standard of postgraduate study known as the 'Bologna model'. Under this model, students undertake a two-year Masters followed by a three-year PhD. The proposal, which will strengthen the outcome for students wanting to pursue advanced study and research in their discipline, has not yet been officially endorsed by the University's principal academic body, Academic Senate. Stay tuned, and we'll let you know more when we can"
 

Atlas

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Not quite sure what's this all about... but could this affect me If I want to do a B.Anc (Hons) in 2012?
Well, I imagine it won't affect those already enrolled or were recently invited to enrol into Honours, if they haven't even approved or decided yet ^

Have you thought about what topic you will focus on for your honours?
 

-may-cat-

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No, I can't I'm afraid; I have less to do with the university than you do.

My point is that the NTEU is, once again, making wildly mis-representative, speculative accusations and should actually wait to see what's happening.
Ah, i see. Guess we'll just have to sit back and see what happens.
 

Fake-Name

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Well, I imagine it won't affect those already enrolled or were recently invited to enrol into Honours, if they haven't even approved or decided yet ^

Have you thought about what topic you will focus on for your honours?
Lol, I'm enrolling next year. Hopefully it will be ok...
 

Politic

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The university is replacing Honours with a two Masters degree which will be the path to doing a PhD. The first year of this will be coursework (24 CPs at 800 level). The "carrot" will be a scholarship covering the two years of that degree.
So what are the positives/negatives of honours verses masters?

Isn't a scholarship covering all of masters good in itself and will encourage people to do masters?
 
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xeuyrawp

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If you're concerned about it (which you're entitled to be, sure), you should bring it up with either/both the student Senators and other members of the Senate.
 

Cathy R

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As much as I despise much of the Macquarie executive and administration, I'd like to point out that this is completely misrepresenting what's happening.
It's not misrepresenting it at all. The proposal, which is being promoted by the senior management as a "done deal" even though it is yet to be discussed properly or approved by the Academic Senate, aims to replace the one-year Honours program with a two-year Masters. The goal is to provide better preparation for PhD study and to align with the 3-2-3 pattern of the so-called "Bologna" pattern in Europe (which is not, I might add, a raging success in Europe and in fact is quite controversial in some countries).

The problem is not the proposal itself (which probably has a great deal of merit) but with the rush to make the decision and then implement it in 2013. If students enrolled from first year in an Honours program, OR if Honours is an intrinsic part of professional accreditation, then the Honours year will remain for those students/programs. However, Honours is regarded as a separate program, so for students currently in first and second year, the proposal adds an additional year to their study that they were not expecting to undertake.

Students and staff are arguing, firstly, for a delay in the decision to enable full consultation on and discussion of the proposal by stakeholders, and secondly, for a delay in implementation, or a phased implementation, that allows current students aiming to complete a one-year Honours to do so.

The statement in an earlier post about the NTEU just trying to stir up trouble or misleading students is incorrect and mischievous. The NTEU is supporting student and staff demands for a delay in the decision and implementation, there is no NTEU position on the proposal itself.
 

Cathy R

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No, I can't I'm afraid; I have less to do with the university than you do.

My point is that the NTEU is, once again, making wildly mis-representative, speculative accusations and should actually wait to see what's happening.
Simply not true. If you have less to do with the university than some other people on this thread YOU should not attempt to represent what is going on. There is NOTHING speculative about this - a proposal has been tabled at Academic Senate. If we wait to see what's happening we will not have the chance to evaluate the proposal, as it will be pushed through with no consultation. I repeat, the NTEU has no position on the proposal itself (many members believe it to be a good idea), but it does take a firm position on the right to consultation of the members of the University who are most affected by the proposed change.
 

-may-cat-

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e-mail that everyone should have received:

Dear Students,

At the next meeting of the University's principal academic body, Academic Senate, on November 15, one of the items for consideration will be whether
Macquarie should adopt from 2013 the international-standard research training degree structure often referred to as the 'Bologna model'.

This comprises a two-year Masters and three-year PhD following a standard three-year Bachelors degree.

Under this proposal, Macquarie would no longer offer the current one-year add-on Honours program, although it would continue to offer those four-year
Bachelor degrees designed to meet professional accreditation requirements such as the B Psych (Hons), B Eng and LLB (Law).

The Bologna model degree structure has spread rapidly throughout Europe, and is fully consistent with North American and Chinese PhD programs.

If Macquarie were to adopt the 3+2+3 structure from 2013, it would offer a range of benefits to our graduates including:

* a competitive advantage both nationally and internationally in applying for jobs, especially early-career academic and research positions
* greater depth and breadth of study in the chosen discipline
* better preparation for an Australian PhD
* better articulation and joint-PhD options with overseas universities

The initiative is not about cost savings. It will actually require significant extra investment by the University, particularly as domestic students undertaking
the new research-training Masters will receive Macquarie scholarships for each year. But this is an investment the University is happy to make because
it is about continuing to build our research strength.

It will help us attract the best students, assist in the negotiation of co-operative research agreements with European, North American, Chinese and Indian
universities, and strengthen our standing as a truly international research university.

My reason for explaining this proposal is not to pre-empt the decision of Academic Senate, which itself includes student and staff representatives, but is
simply to counter misinformed discussion of the proposal which has needlessly alarmed some staff and students.


Regards

Professor Jim Piper,
Deputy Vice-Chancellor (Research).
 

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