a.speer; good nazi or liar? (1 Viewer)

[2003HSC]

For those doing SPeer, if the question asks you to make a judgement on his statements at nuremburg, what are you saying?
I'm going to write he lied and was meticulously ruthless in acheiving his goals and falsifying his innocence

 

[spin spin sugar]

sounds just like leni

 

[pulver]

I would imagine I would write something along those same lines 2003HSC.
I'll just rattle on about he did what anyone else would have done to save their own skin. If it meant not being hung, I would lie my arse off too!

 

[MiuMiu]

They won't ask you about the Nuremburg trials, they will ask you about his impact on Germany either as a whole or on a particular facet of life.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

There is the possibility of their asking about Speer's 'war guilt', in which case his fabrications at Nuremburg are worth mentioning..

I, who had wanted nothing more than to be Hitler's master builder..

 

[Alexander]

The second Speer question is always about evaluating his impact on Nazi Germany. If anything, Nuremburg is a brief mention at the end---let's face it, he is only talking about the two things that got him into Nuremburg (slave labour and waging aggressive war), which don't cover things like armaments production etc. as you couldn't be tried for doing a good job, but that really impacted the war.

 

[Rizzy Khan]

In the end, Speer turned into a monster like Hitler and his henchmen. He's a liar, cold and calculated. If you've read part of his autobiography, he admits that he posessed a feeble character, i agree with that. It's this week character that fuelled his desire to assimilate with Nazi policies and psychology. From 1933, when Hitler was impressed with young Speer's efforts to make him appear like a supreme Aryan, it sparked Speer's obsession (mayb it's a strong word?), to please his mentor. Hope this hepls, e-mail me if you need more help.

 

[kdu]

To Rizzy Khan, so you're saying that Speer was ambitious because he didn't succeed in his private architecture business and was deprived of social interaction??

But I don't think Speer wanted to assimilated with Nazi pysychology- he probably succumbed under Hitler's spell. He wasn;t anti-Semitic but he used anyone - German women, foreign labour and concentration inmates- to help his work.

Please correct the facts if they're wrong...

 

[emily]

no, you're right, but i do think he knew, for many reasons

- he was in charge of train lines - knew no clothes or food was following the jews as they were 'moved'
- Wolters chronicles - if you were innocent would you go to that much trouble to cover your tracks?!
- said he wasn't at meeting where final solution was discussed, yet strangely he wrote in his journal about how much fun they all had on the train on the way home (hmmmm)

meh, he knew - he was just a damn good liar.

 

[kdu]

True. About the Wolter's Chronicle; Was it finally released after he died or something? I forgot what it was about too.

 

[emily]

yeah, Wolters let everyone have it after he had died. They used to be really good friends, but fell out following nuremburg - when wolters found out what a liar his friend was.

 

[Alexander]

But the German's never implicated each other. Wolters was honourable.
And on this point, technically speaking, Speer was never really a liar. He was brilliant to a point in his defence as he said things with elements of truth. Speer tells part of the story, but leaves out the parts that would get him hung. No real liar.
Speer's neck was saved because Borrman wasnt at Nuremberg and Speer knew loads more information than the allies and could easily shift much blame on sauckel---his word against sauckels. Besides, the yanks liked speer.

 

[kdu]

Funny isn't it how things happen- lay the blame on someone else!

Well perhaps Speer told the truth but omitted parts - which means he didn't tell the whole truth... but then.. that kind of makes him a liar doesn't it? I mean he definitely knew about the Final Solution and he said he didn't.

You're right about the Americans because I guess he was the only one that said ' I accept the consequences or collective responsibility of using foreign labour,, and stuff

 

[meh]

lair

 

[*10#]

i reckon Speer knew about the "final solution" but tried to convince himself and everbody else all his life that he did not

"i did not want to know what was happening there"

he convinced the judges at Nuremburg so i guess thats what matters he saved his own neck

still i believe Speer honestly was a reddemed person that carried enormous guilt all his life. so i dont think he is technically a liar just a manipulater of the truth
a good person who got swept away with his own self-importance and the charisma of the most powerful man on earth - it could happen to any of us

 

[dry-eyeballs]

I know you cant really go on a rant about capital punishment but geez, seriously. If i was going to be hung by some imperial American wankers who like to impose their version of democracy all over the world, regardless of the crimes id committed i wouldnt credit them with the knowledge. Commonly regarded as the 'liberators' their Nuremberg Trials were a mess. Speer at least had the brains to manipulate them into believing his little 'collective guilt' but dont hang me speel, and i think that says more about the incompetence of the allied powers trials than Speer himself. He might have been a liar, but in a court of fascists i dont think it matters much. Besides the Nazis were kinda cool... haha.. joke... but.. Speer had some valid points, and although lying is 'wrong' their are certain situations when a time demands it so i would say: Speer (SUPPORTING EVIDENCE) lied about the knowledge of the Nazi atrocities and his own direct involvement, however, to admit absolute guilt in the face of death would not only be a final tribute to the Fuhrer, as Goring insistently implied, to whom he has seemed to turn his back, but would result in a death, the 'pseudo-justice' of allied powers, who he had been convinced were the 'enemy' for the past (i dont know how many years) and would seem to a man of great insight and contemplative power, an extreme act of folly.

On that note. Hows it all going guys? and on another note. the modern history syllabis is way to big. I have brain cramp.

 

[kdu]

Yeah,,, I know what you're saying and I think I know what you would write in your essay

See? There's two points of view:

a)you can see it from a psychological point of view
b)or a evidence kind of view

Mesh those two together and you've got - a 'good' liar

ps-you've got some good points there dry-eyeballs
pss- and yeah,, lots to learn..