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Australian Politics (9 Viewers)

FlipX

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Lentern, Slidey...just send me a how-to-vote spreadsheet when you're done. lol

On another note, I've seen a lot of "a vote for Greens is a vote for Labour!!!!" bullshit floating around. Are these people really too lazy to learn how to preference their own votes?

And Existential, relax. Greens are nowhere near close to forming a federal government - but giving them veto power will be an important step in Aussie politics, hopefully teaching the big parties the art of bi-partisan negotiation...
 

Existential

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Lentern, Slidey...just send me a how-to-vote spreadsheet when you're done. lol

On another note, I've seen a lot of "a vote for Greens is a vote for Labour!!!!" bullshit floating around. Are these people really too lazy to learn how to preference their own votes?

And Existential, relax. Greens are nowhere near close to forming a federal government - but giving them veto power will be an important step in Aussie politics, hopefully teaching the big parties the art of bi-partisan negotiation...
that's a funny scare tactic. despite preferential voting agreements, the greens haven't agreed with labor in a while. in fact the last i heard the senator was criticising the gov't in his "YAY WE'RE FINALLY GETTING A FEW MORE VOTES" speech.

might i add that the greens were against the ETS.
 

Lentern

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I tend not to rate Lenore Taylor as one of the best journalist going around. Although it’s my humble opinion I tend to find she buys a bit into the narrative views of politics eg Howard was a formidable campaigner, conviction politician, stuck rigorously to his beliefs, down to earth guy, completely unpretentious, man of steel, knew how to get things done, tenacious political warrior blah blah blah. Most of her work (including to some extent her most recent article about the tremendous freefall of Kevin) reflects this and like many opinion writers she come across as someone who develops an idea on instinct, articulates it then researches retrospectively.

None the less she does research well and I recommend people have a squiz at her most recent article in which she discusses the inner divisions of the ALP on the CPRS. The liberal party is quite open about who sits where on climate change and generally where the alliances are but most oppositions are quite transparent except when they appear headed for government (eg NSW liberal.) The government is more opaque so it’s always interesting to get these little peaks. Peter Garrett, the man who Rudd in 2007 said would be delivering an ETS was not consulted at all but was apparently inclined to see the double dissolution trigger.

Mark Arbib somehow had a voice in the matter which perhaps indicate how reliant Rudd is on the NSW right faction if Julia moved against him, or rather how close the NSW right are to leaving him. Arbib was supposedly in favour of scrapping the whole thing, Lindsay Tanner, a member of the so called “gang of four” was naturally consulted and deadest against such a thing.

Swan who in some corners is rumoured to be a climate skeptic and is probably the most senior man in the right wing branch of the QLD ALP is apparently the architect of the delay. Or atleast the senior minister most strongly in favour of it. Gillard agrees with Swan but was less emphatic in her views.

Wong thank god was consulted and was aghast at Arbib’s proposal and I gather was in favour of reintroducing the legislation and going to the polls like Tanner and Garrett. I got the impression watching insiders this morning (Taylor was on the panel) that Combet was not initially consulted in the same capacity as Wong and the gang of four but got wind that the Kitchen cabinet plus Wong was going to decide and after it became apparent he knew, he was consulted and argued in favour of the election trigger.

Rudd himself was allegedly unsure, I think Taylor is wrong and that he probably had an idea but by claiming indecision he was more able to get honest and candid feedback from his inner sanctum. It fits in with the “Rudd is a coward” image that he didn’t voice a firm view, but that’s different from him having no opinions of his own which would be quite extraordinary given his position.

Like I said I think the conclusions Taylor draws are not that great and probably drawn before the research was done but the research is quite good.
 

Slidey

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No they wont, that's the point. The ALP vote would have to absolutely collapse in QLD for the Greens to finish ahead in the final count for the final seat and the primary swing against the ALP is/will be well below the national average in QLD.
Quit your bullshit. UNDERSTAND HOW THE PREFERENCE AND QUOTA SYSTEM WORKS.

Here's just one example explaining the high likelihood that you're wrong.

Queensland Greens to advance amid ETS retreat
 

Slidey

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And Existential, relax. Greens are nowhere near close to forming a federal government - but giving them veto power will be an important step in Aussie politics, hopefully teaching the big parties the art of bi-partisan negotiation...
Existential/Lauchlan is some Labour hack with Asperger's who supports Internet censorship. The best option is to simply put him on ignore.
 

Slidey

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To be fair, if Antony Green predicted the Greens would NOT win a Queensland Federal Senate seat, I'm being just as stubborn as he is.

"My electoral analyst could beat your electoral analyst any day of the week!"
 

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To be fair, if Antony Green predicted the Greens would NOT win a Queensland Federal Senate seat, I'm being just as stubborn as he is.

"My electoral analyst could beat your electoral analyst any day of the week!"
I like Malcolm Mack but I do think he likes to make the bold calls before the election. Probably feels theres no fun to be has gloating afterwards if you hold off until it's patently obvious what's going to happen. Nonetheless as a general rule I tend to downplay the greens prospects which I suspect might be because I'm afraid of being disappointed and the latest poll (was it galaxy, I can't remember) suggests labor was hit harder in QLD then I thought it would be. I still kind of expect them to fall short of the quota but I'm less confident. If they get it it though they only just fall over the line in my boo k, I'm revising my estimate to 8 and a half seats.
 

Slidey

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That's the third poll to record quite a large Greens bounce - 16%, 13%, now 15% :)
 

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How important is an opposition approval rating? Not very. A classic Beazley poll which is a bit amusing given Beazley tended to be so sound and self assured compared to erratic Abbott. Peter Hartcher kind of says that the coalition would be cruising if it weren’t for Abbott. He’s kind of right, Were the government in this situation and the coalition leader a well liked, level headed moderate then they probably would have a handsome lead in deed (across a few polls). But such a leader would unlikely have dragged Rudd down with them like Abbott has.

Rudd clearly had a weak gameplan if the election turned into a dogfight and that’s more or less the only kind a right wing culture warrior like Abbott knows. Despite what recent polling might suggest, this ugly politics will ultimately favour the incumbent prime minister because the people know what this devil is capable of. Abbott might be nicely setting up someone for a strong win at the next election however.

The greens vote was a pleasant surprise, I don’t think I was mad to think that Newspoll had surveyed an unusually progressive 1500 people last poll. Beware the Clegg effect Bob, no your weaknesses and have powerful explanations for them before the major parties launch their attacks.
 

Slidey

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fuck me, astounding. thought Abbott was more suited to the bible-thumping drudgery that is US politics
Keep in mind that poll also gives Rudd at 50% preferred PM rating to Abbott's 30%. So while people would like to vote Liberal, Abbott is a major turn-off.
 

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Keep in mind that poll also gives Rudd at 50% preferred PM rating to Abbott's 30%. So while people would like to vote Liberal, Abbott is a major turn-off.
Keep in mind what I said, Turnbull noway drags Rudd down in the way Abbott has.
 

evatt

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Keep in mind that poll also gives Rudd at 50% preferred PM rating to Abbott's 30%. So while people would like to vote Liberal, Abbott is a major turn-off.

Whilst that is fair enough, it won't stop them voting for the idiot.

I for one will be ashamed, if Abbott has to represent Australia on the world stage.
 

Lentern

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I like Malcolm Mack but I do think he likes to make the bold calls before the election. Probably feels theres no fun to be has gloating afterwards if you hold off until it's patently obvious what's going to happen. Nonetheless as a general rule I tend to downplay the greens prospects which I suspect might be because I'm afraid of being disappointed and the latest poll (was it galaxy, I can't remember) suggests labor was hit harder in QLD then I thought it would be. I still kind of expect them to fall short of the quota but I'm less confident. If they get it it though they only just fall over the line in my boo k, I'm revising my estimate to 8 and a half seats.
Over to you Slidey

Edit: Wait they released a second one in the same week?

Edit Edit Edit: I understand now, an indicator yes, but not strong enough for me to reverse any of my predictions.
 
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Slidey

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Over to you Slidey

Edit: Wait they released a second one in the same week?
Yeah fair enough, I saw that, I was just pointing out a further confirmation of the trend. :)
 

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Keep in mind that poll also gives Rudd at 50% preferred PM rating to Abbott's 30%. So while people would like to vote Liberal, Abbott is a major turn-off.
ppm was 49-39, which is actually pretty respectable for an opposition leader. There's always a significant pro incumbent effect with that measure.
 

Slidey

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ppm was 49-39, which is actually pretty respectable for an opposition leader. There's always a significant pro incumbent effect with that measure.
Hmm, my bad, thought it was 49-29.

OK, now I'm worried - how can 40% of Australians like Tony Abbott? Or maybe they just prefer him to Rudd in the same way I'd prefer to eat mouldy cheese rather than faeces.
 

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