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Medicinal chemistry (2 Viewers)

Tim035

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Medicinal Chemistry seems to be a new degree offered in 2010, it provides a combination of synthetic chemistry courses with pharmacology and medical science courses to make graduates thoroughly prepared for work in the pharmaceutical industry. I really wish it had been on offer when I started uni, and suggest anyone considering a pharmacology major to give this a look!
 

Fortify

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heyy ! it's definitely one of my nine choices . it seems really interesting, my career advisor showed me this course :D
 

deadfishlol

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I really wish it had been on offer when I started uni
Ditto.

From looking at the subjects it's pretty close to what I'm doing with my science degree (biochem + pharm major) but with more organic chem and a less biochem/molecular biology. Interesting.
 

Tim035

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Ditto.

From looking at the subjects it's pretty close to what I'm doing with my science degree (biochem + pharm major) but with more organic chem and a less biochem/molecular biology. Interesting.
Yeah, that's the annoying part, if I had been more organized / known from earlier on the direction I wanted to go in science, I could have pretty much done this degree.
I'm considering doing honors part time + doing the chem courses (5 total) over the next 2 years, as I think to be a real asset of a pharmaceutical company's R&D, you need the synthetic chemistry skills as well as the pharmacology knowledge.
 

Survivor39

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It does look like a very interesting degree to do.
 

deadfishlol

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Oh, in a org chem lecture I heard that the school of chemistry is going to bring in the new academic specialising in medicinal chemistry next year, which means the 3rd year medicinal chemistry subject could be available as early as next year, second semester (even though the people actually doing the degree won't be taking it until 2012!)

UNSW Handbook Course - Medicinal Organic Chemistry - CHEM3051

Prepreqs will be CHEM2021 and CHEM3021 (2nd/3rd year org chem). I'm torn over whether to stick with what I'm doing, or demote the 2nd major down to a minor so i can fit both CHEM3021 and this...
 

Tim035

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Can I ask what's 2nd (and I guess 3rd) year organic chemistry like?
 

deadfishlol

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2nd year topics:
- Spectroscopy
- Rearrangement reactions (expansion of alkene reactions in chem 1B + others)
- Carbonyl chemistry (~40-50 reactions to remember for this)
- Aromatic chemistry

Spectro and alkene chemistry is quite easy, not much to say.
Carbonyl chemistry is hilariously difficult, there's a LOT to remember, and really requires you to think beyond the A + B --> C you get in 1st year.
Aromatic chemistry relies a lot on knowing resonance structures and electron distribution, very managable if you mastered that in 1st year.

The labs are partially self-directed and require you to finish 5 experiments within 12 weeks, including one where you are given an unknown and you do tests on it to figure out what it is blah blah blah. You also have to write reports for every experiment from scratch, rather than answering questions. There's a big emphasis on separation and purification techniques, plus you get to mess with some pretty dangerous stuff you don't touch in 1st year (like sodium metal!)

It's a big kick in the balls for the kids who either didn't do well in 1st year or rote-learned their way through the physical/organic parts of it. Otherwise, it's not too bad :D

3rd is mostly spectroscopy and heterocycle synthesis, which I think is related to drug synthesis. Haven't looked at the course much, yet.
 
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EdmondDW

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The structure is pretty much like medical chem...they just changed the name and want to absorb more students to take chem major...

But I suspect still not too many ppl will do chem major...coz students thought chem is hard...

look at the 2nd yr organic chem mid-session exam...the mean is 19.5/40 which is a failure...some of my friends just dropped it after several weeks...

For pharmacology, the major structure in unsw is also a joke...everyone knows drug syntheis is mainly about organic chem....the pharmacology major in unsw even didnt need any more higher yr's chem subjects as core courses...

I hope unsw science faculty can change the handbook soon...
 

Tim035

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The structure is pretty much like medical chem...they just changed the name and want to absorb more students to take chem major...

But I suspect still not too many ppl will do chem major...coz students thought chem is hard...

look at the 2nd yr organic chem mid-session exam...the mean is 19.5/40 which is a failure...some of my friends just dropped it after several weeks...

For pharmacology, the major structure in unsw is also a joke...everyone knows drug syntheis is mainly about organic chem....the pharmacology major in unsw even didnt need any more higher yr's chem subjects as core courses...

I hope unsw science faculty can change the handbook soon...
Pharmacology even at 3rd year level requires extremely little chemistry knowledge; the little you do need to know (like what it is that makes each of the amino acids polar, non polar, acidic or basic) you can easily pick up along the way.
I honestly feel like I have been able to cruise through 3rd year medical science, whilst still achieving 80+ in every assessment task. Where as if I was doing a chem major I'm fairly sure I'd have to bust my ass to get equivalent marks.


hmm.. I think I'll need to revise resonance structure and all the first year organo reactions over summer.
 
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deadfishlol

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The structure is pretty much like medical chem...they just changed the name and want to absorb more students to take chem major...

But I suspect still not too many ppl will do chem major...coz students thought chem is hard...

look at the 2nd yr organic chem mid-session exam...the mean is 19.5/40 which is a failure...some of my friends just dropped it after several weeks...

For pharmacology, the major structure in unsw is also a joke...everyone knows drug syntheis is mainly about organic chem....the pharmacology major in unsw even didnt need any more higher yr's chem subjects as core courses...

I hope unsw science faculty can change the handbook soon...
If I remember looking at the graph, the mean took into account a lot of 0's from a people who didn't turn up for the exam or just dropped the course a little too late :D I also remember seeing at least 9-10 scores above 30/40.

The thing is that most students interested in pharmacology don't initially realise the potential of higher level chemistry for jobs in the pharmaceutical industry...there's only 2-4 people tops (including myself) who are doing both CHEM2021 and PHPH2011 this year even though CHEM2021 is listed as an elective for a pharm major.

This course would probably get a lot more attention from yr.12's than the Adv sci. major, which is rather vague tbh.
 
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Tim035

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The thing is that most students interested in pharmacology don't initially realise the potential of higher level chemistry for jobs in the pharmaceutical industry...there's only 2-4 people tops (including myself) who are doing both CHEM2021 and PHPH2011 this year even though CHEM2021 is listed as an elective for a pharm major.
I'm hugely guilty of this :(
 

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Organic chemistry is insanely hard, and given today's job prospects, Biotechnology or at least anything which offers you a non-research job is much much better.

Having completed the med sci degree, and other friends having done hons in addition (and graduated mid-year this year) they have literally been stuck. Job prospects are extremely low, unless you want to devote another 4 years on to do a PhD.

Do something that is at the very least related to medicine, there are so many grants and stuff for that.

I'm not sure about you new-undergrads, but unless you want to do pipette and mix chemicals, or pcr, bioassay for a whole year in hons, seriously, reconsider a science path. Unless of course grad-entry medicine/pharmacy/vet/optom is set in your mind
 

Tim035

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Organic chemistry is insanely hard, and given today's job prospects, Biotechnology or at least anything which offers you a non-research job is much much better.

Having completed the med sci degree, and other friends having done hons in addition (and graduated mid-year this year) they have literally been stuck. Job prospects are extremely low, unless you want to devote another 4 years on to do a PhD.

Do something that is at the very least related to medicine, there are so many grants and stuff for that.

I'm not sure about you new-undergrads, but unless you want to do pipette and mix chemicals, or pcr, bioassay for a whole year in hons, seriously, reconsider a science path. Unless of course grad-entry medicine/pharmacy/vet/optom is set in your mind
Wow, didn't know you still browsed here Rekkusu :D Are you saying your friends are stuck for jobs as they did BABS honors / not a medicine related honors? One of the other reasons I was thinking of doing this is you at least a decent amount of job adds requiring synthetic chemists or people capable of performing HPLC, I' am genuinely concerned my WAM will take a serious nose dive though.

What are you doing now?
 

Rekkusu

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Hhaa been some time eh! Yeah stumbled back onto this forum when I searching for some stuff. Mm that's true. If I was told earlier I would've probably left science if not for the path I was following.

Well, 6 out of 9 buddies ended (my tutors, demonstrators, uni mates etc) up doing MSc in other unis after their hons, or even worse dropping mid-way in their hons/msc/phd for they simply lost their passion. It's simply so hard to do the same thing every day, and even worse, you're not paid for all that hard work and hours you do unlike my IT buddies, economics, accounting. Others who've completed their MSc/hons/Phd have gone onto to work as analysts for big companies, calibration, etc.

Tim the best advice I can give to you before you head into any area of scientific research is to join a research group here at unsw. They'll be happy for you to gain work exp, or if you want the money, apply to the vacation scholarships (but they tend to be extremely biased, and I'm talking from experience - lecturers tend to want 3rd years, so that they can attract them into their honours). If after that time you are still passionate, then for sure - go for hons, phd, etc.

If not, it is never too late to reconsider your career.

For my other buddies who graduated with the same degree as you, adv sci or med sci, they've ALL since gone to graduate entry programs, or joined random degrees like dental therapy stuff.

Don't worry too much about your WAM, you'll notice nowadays, people are more into your work experience --> Lol again this is from experience, I know this girl who failed fundmnts of micro & immuno 2 times, micr2011 once, B & D almost and still somehow managed to get honours at the Garvan Institute - despite it being so-called competitive. I can't say anything about organic chem, I was talking from more of a medical science perspective. But be sure to check the reqmts for your dream job, some may require a hons and MSc for pre-req.

Science involves alot of faith and hard work for little money and low job security.

I do apologise to anyone out there, even to the ppl who know me for my negative post. But i really feel obligated to tell you people before you've completed 3rd year
 
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Tim035

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Wow, I guess that's a lot to swallow. I had actually made up my mind that I was going to do pharmacy, but I've been working as a dispensary assistant now for 6 months and there is no way in hell I'd want to be a pharmacist for the rest of my life. I'm kicking myself for not having done GAMSAT so I could have applied for post grad med at Sydney, a guy with a WAM a fair few points lower than mine got in from Med sci. So the way I see it at the moment, I can either take a year off, sit the GAMSAT and decide from their, or do honors & GAMSAT and then decide. I honestly don't know if I could bare another 5 years of zero social life and money to do post grad med, sigh.....


I've got a couple of professors who are more than happy to take me on next year for honors, I unfortunately waited too long to apply for summer scholarships / internships, however they have said they can probably line up some work for me to do if I want (obviously not being paid for it though).


If I don't do honors next year I seriously have no idea wtf I would do instead.... I mean seriously, wtf does a B. Med Sci qualify you to do?
 
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Rekkusu

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Yeah it was a real shocker to me when I started tracing back what my buddies back in usyd/unsw were doing after graduating with just the science degree. I think 3 people I know are still unemployed at the moment (despite all 3 of them having come from Sydney Boys/Girls)

A science degree will at most place you as a Lab technician (i.e. work in Pathology, haematology, etc, or preparing lab pracs for high school students). If you're lucky maybe as a research assistant. A salary of 40 to max 48K. I don't know much about chemistry, but the biochem analyst I know works on calibrating scientific equipment, and hell its a shitty job, but to even get it, he's done Hons, and PhD (which he sort of dragged on for 5 years instead of the usual 4). Also with Scientific reseach positions you'd be lucky to stay in Sydney for it, chances are you'll need to head to the states or UK (For PhDs + Post Doc) before you're able to earn some big bucks.

Try talking to your demos/tutors and see how they're going.

Well it's never too late, there are many post-grad schools around Australia. If that's not your area, commerce/accounting/IT at the very least provides you with more job security than science does.

Haha Pharmacy is pretty tedious I can understand, but again at least it provides you a passport to work anywhere and job security. Opening your own Pharm nowadays is pretty hard though.
 

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- Carbonyl chemistry (~40-50 reactions to remember for this)
lol wtf? carbonyl chemistry consists of a handful of general reactions which can be tailored and slightly changed depending on the reagents. There's nowhere near 50 reactions to remember if you can identify simple patterns (and I'd hope a chemistry student could
 

deadfishlol

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lol wtf? carbonyl chemistry consists of a handful of general reactions which can be tailored and slightly changed depending on the reagents. There's nowhere near 50 reactions to remember if you can identify simple patterns (and I'd hope a chemistry student could
Uhh, I guess in hindsight 50 is a stretch (I blame exams =\)

I agree it gets much easier once you get the hang of things and learn to spot patterns, but it still feels like there's a lot of variation between related reactions - to the point where it's hard to answer questions without being aware of pretty much every little variation and reagent combination. Or at least grind it out with a lot of questions before you can actually start answering questions reliably simply by identifying patterns.

Rekkusu: kind of depressing to hear that...out of curiosity though, is what you say true for all BABS/MedSci majors/honours programs or are there at least some areas with better job prospects than others?
 

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