Firstly, may I ask are you a GP? You seem to do alot of referring, that is why I ask.
Is that a stab at GP’s? What if I said I were an orthopaedic resident? Do I not refer patients for pre/post rehab? Or maybe Sports physician, I still refer. Or what if I am a janitor at a high school or a physio just like you (minus the bias)? I don’t think I need to flash my name or credentials to get a point across (especially on an internet forum last thing I need is this to be popping under my name on google).
Err, it wasn't a stab at gp's i have the greatest respect for them, the reason why i think of you as a blabbering fool is because you seem to think I am personally attacking you, but i'm merely trying to discount your arguements. So yes i'm not against surgeons or gp's and i don't have a superiority complex such that i would treat you differently if you were a janitor. I did not ask you to flash your name or credentials lol. You sound like i'm forever against you and after you. Nevertheless, a simple look at your profile reveals that you are undertaking the chiropractic course at RMIT. Why do you need to hide that? So please don't act like your an outsider with no predispositions.
As for referral... heres a new concept for you, MULTIDISCIPLINARY management of patients! Usually entails referrals [or do you need a link to medical dictionary with that?] Heres a tip: don't patronize individuals or you may find that you come of as a 'know it all exuberant leader' that we all need to hail. As soon as you started talking about how chiro tables are more expensive than physio tables in support of your argument a fool light started blinking inside my head
Chiro is based on the notion that "Chiropractors believe that all of a patient's problems can be traced back to the spine. - this includes asthma, cancer, heart burn, acne etc etc
As far as I am aware this is just remnants of old thinking from ancient days of conceptualisation. At one point good old medicine was consisted of nothing more than useless potions and surgeons were considered barbarians hence why they were not allowed to use the doctors title (as respect for those founding fathers that is why a doctor reverts back to Mr/Mrs after specialising as a surgeon [does not apply in US]).
Again blabbering on about unnecessary information, we don't need to know that you know about the whole Mr/Dr surgeon dichotomy - again preaching how much you know - this discussion would have been far more effective if you could possibly learn to communicate more succinctly. Oh my apologies my Lord. "all problems can be traced back to the spine." that is what is still taught and practiced, this is still at the heart of what in essence is chiropractic, not only is it unsubstantiated BS, but if your trying to move away and transform into treating muscles, joints, tendons, ligs and rehab then it is encroaching on what is physio and physiatry profess to do and has been proven to do.(that is the key which you still still do not get)
What, now you going to say medicine is still the same witchcraft it used to be? Adjust your clock now.
Once again blabbing blabbing blabbering when did i say that?
No chiro I know believes in the above stated, as far as I know no chiropractic program here in Australia teaches such crap, and if they do, then they simply should be avoided at all cost.
lol ther are only two programs?
[/FONT][/COLOR]Chiro's are not trained in soft tissue therapy, rehab or exercise prog, they mainly do and are taught spinal man.
No, you are wrong again! Chiropractors are taught soft tissue, rehabilitation, and exercise programs. All chiropractors graduating from RMIT University in Melbourne undergo all above mentioned. In fact their soft tissue is taught by qualified massage therapists. And they must demonstrate full competency in all areas prior to graduation and registration.
Firstly, being taught soft tissue manipulation by qualified massage therapist isn't something that substantiates your arguments. You're being taught massage techniques, we're taught by practicing physio's because they do soft tis manipulation, massage therapists perform massage. If you're taught everything and even more than what a physio is taught, how on earth do you cram your course into 5 years?
In addition all the same physical therapeutic aids: including Ultrasound, Laser, TENS, Interferential, etc
Chiro's have fiven themselves doctors titles, its often seen by real medical doctors, dentists, physios etc the non-alternative health modalities as quite frivolous and hilarious for chiro's to be calling themselves doctors.. Because your training is no where near those professions.
Ok, what the hell does “fiven” mean?
My Lord, I'm surprised that some one of you're intelligence is unable to infer that fiven is meant to be given. GG. You havn't answered why chiro's call themselves doctors here in australia despite doing a BappSc degree. No wonder the profession's credibility has declined. Its about having integrity. If just by means of legislative change physio's were allowed to banter around the prefix Dr i personally wouldn't, because I simply am not one.
Do you honestly think, considering how long chiropractic has been around it would be allowed to continue if it was “pseudoscience”?
Do you honestly think that a healthcare modality, in this day and age, which is a registered and regulated by government bodies would be allowed to exist if it was “pseudoscience”, if it was unproven, “frivolous”, if it posed dangerous hazard to public? If most of all it did not yield results?
Seriously? What do you think the medical doctors, that make up those government registration bodies, advisory committees and health regulatory bodies are that F***ing stupid? F***ing blind? For all these years? All these numerous laws and health acts, gone and present? And that now you, a graduating physio is so much more wiser then all of them, put together?
Previously, you stated health is a business, the demand for chiro has been dependent on its demand for its services which is stipulated by its perceived effectiveness. Thus, medical boards of the AMA, whateva will not be trying to shut chiro down because chiro has now, and will shut itself down. It comes down to survival of the fittest. The public percieves chiro to be a pseudo of no tangible benefit besides short term placebo, and market forces will take care of it, just like it has reflexology, iridology etc this is why i said the glory days of chiro are over. IT doesn't also help when you chiro's have treatment plan contract packages of $2000-3000 and insist on laughable annual checkups.
Or maybe, and here me out on this... you might just be wrong?
No, how can that be right? we must all be wrong! All hail our exuberant leader; we should just scrap all medical research from now on [who knows, maybe save a billion or 10] and just solicit to your advice ONLY!
I'm sorry but even if we were to save your said research from the wrath that is extensorindicis, you wouldn't have any published in medical journals but rather those of your less credible chiro journals.
[/FONT][/COLOR]1. Technically, chiropractic is defined under “complementary medicine”. And note acupuncture is now actually regarded as mainstream in medicine these days, even though it too, is part of CAMs (Complementary and Alternative Medicines).
But chiro is NOT, it is still complementary med. Just like iridology, reflexology etc. You can't dodge that.
2. No, chiropractors are not in Intensive Care Unit (ICU) as that usually means patients are critical status. Don’t see any optometrists in there either, are they not allowed Doctor title either? However, for the record; chiropractors (minor percentage) do perform manipulation under anaesthesia, usually during orthopaedic surgery, in hospitals OR’s. [Shock, Mr know-it-all didn’t know that either]
No Optom's arn't nor can they be, but optom is not complementary BS, its proven medically. You seem to be hell bent on the 'dr' prefix seems to me like you get an ego orgasm by calling your self one 'despite it being hillarious to the general public' And no optoms don't call themselves dr's because frankly they don't have an inferiority complex in the health system, they're highly valued. Good luck at booking an operation suite, booking the services of busy and highly skilled anaesthetist, to perform manpulation under anaes. lol Can chiro's even admit patients in a hospital? Don't provide anecdotal evidence of some chiro in Minnesota because this is not allowed in Aus or the UK or the majority of the US.
So YES, there are chiros are on the sports fields, they are just not doing the pre/post-training rub downs that physio/message therapist does because they are usually involved in patient maintenance and injury prevention. There is no point providing manipulation when brutal forces are excreted on the field, usually provided post game/trauma.
Chiro's do what ever they do after a few days after the game, because its a placebo, you won't see chiros run up to injured players you see physios or sports physicians. nice try teaming us up with massage therapists.
Chiro is not saturated at the moment and wont be, because
a) all graduates find work [shock]. Amazes me how much you reiterate point about hospital positions when only minority physios work in them, they get paid less than private prac, and no one likes it all while they look for another job [am I wrong? Be honest] I bring up hospital work, because despite increasing student numbers in physio, if one is not able to get work in private practice, there are always jobs in the hospitals to fall back on these are guaranteed. UNlike chiro no private practice no job get over it. Actually pay in hospitals are slightly lower not much lower than private practice. I'd rather have a guaranteed job in a rewarding ortha ward, than worry about finding jobs in the tsunami of chiro students that are likely to follow in the next few years.
Internet is always full of people ready to bitch at drop of a hat. You can probably find people bitching about any career path (inc. physio), hence why I tried to be realistic and un-bias (unlike some)
Oh yes, widely respected forums like student doc network is BS, your the only one on here that is defending chiro so vehemently.
You appear to have little clue what a chiro does and you’ve proved that so well. It appears only facts you derive are from some minor reading from American website, have you been to a chiro? Ever talked to one? Then how can you presume to be an expert and call everything I say “dribble”?
No i have not been to a chiro nor do i intend to go to one. I rather not get a stroke from cervical spine manipulation to cure those so called subluxations. No I don't profess to be an expert, and i didn't say everything is dribble, i stated what you said was dribble, unless of course Mr Bored your the universal expert on chiro
Since we are getting personal, how do I label your comments? Biased, unfounded, load of crap. Sounds about right!?!
No sorry you were getting personal, once chiro was said to be a pseudoscience.
So mate maybe you should crawl out of your cacoon and take a sniff of the wide world for once... not everything is as it seems and just because you did a physio degree does not make you an expert in chiropractic or medicine.
No i never said i was an expert because i did physio. I know the past 5 years of uni has been hinged on the assumption that chiro has tangible benefits and being called Dr Bored will cure all the insecurities associated with your career and perception problems but please don't assume I live in a cacoon. Because extensorindicis lives partly within the extensor retinaculum and that certainly is not a cacoon. Good Night fool
i was pretty sure chiro was an alternative type health but yes complementary is the correct term, and i though if it is a complementary form of treatment then it is not considered allied health. I concede that fault. I'd certainly want to do some form of postgrad, i heard neuro is mostly for hospital, probably will do manipulative or sports and hopefully the fellowship exams as well. Bu that takes ages
