Bright students 'betrayed' by HSC (2 Viewers)

[Timothy.Siu]

Bright students 'betrayed' by hsc

heath gilmore and anna patty

september 12, 2009
the hsc is a blunt instrument that leaves many of the most talented students excluded from higher education, the head of australia's oldest university says. The university of sydney's vice-chancellor, michael spence, told the herald the entry ranking system was biased towards students who attended private and selective high schools. The universities admission index - and its replacement, the australian tertiary admission rank - was a crude and one-dimensional measure of a student's track record, he said.

Asked if the system favoured elite eastern suburbs and north shore schools, dr spence said ''serious questions'' existed about the mix of the student intake at his university. ''we are thinking through questions at the moment about how you measure that potential in a high-school system which is drunk with the uai,'' he said. ''what we are looking for is people who are going to grow into champions in the kind of high-quality environment we can provide for them. That is not necessarily the person who ran the fastest race.'' his criticism is echoed by a number of leading academics. Macquarie university's vice-chancellor, steven schwartz, has long railed against using a single entry mark as a sole determinant of a student's ability, particularly those who have experienced hardship in their final year or attended disadvantaged schools.

But larissa treskin, the principal of james ruse agricultural high school, said the hsc was the best indicator of a child's potential. Her school has been the top hsc performer in the state for more than a decade.
Ms treskin denied the system was too narrow, saying it required a broad range of abilities, including resilience and effort, from students who did well. ''how one humanises the concept of a rank, and how one explores issues of future promise and motivation, is a challenge for tertiary institutions across the world, not just sydney university,'' she said.

Andrew stanton, managing director of the universities admissions centre, defended the system as a good measure of academic performance. He also supported consideration being given to other factors, including socio-economic disadvantage. Through the uac's special education access scheme, students who have experienced disadvantage can qualify for bonus university entry points.
Mr stanton said the uac would co-operate with the university of sydney if it decided to develop an additional tool to assess university entry. The chief executive of the australian tutoring association, mohan dhall, said tuition was only as good as a student's ability. ''yes, tuition can make a difference, but it won't always indicate directly the kind of thinking that is required by university,'' he said. ''some tuition focuses on a lot of rote-learning formulas and repetition and will inherently be limited in showing the real ability of students.'' george cooney, an expert in the calculation of university admissions rankings, has suggested the university entry system be a subject for public debate because of confusion that has surrounded it since universities began hand-picking some students on the basis of measures other than the uai.

On monday dr spence unveiled a ''radical rethink'' that was taking place at the 159-year-old institution, where questions are being asked about the sustainability of enrolling more than 48,000 full- and part-time students every year.
The university wants to position itself as a high-end research institution and find new ways to identify the most promising students, regardless of background or nationality. It is negotiating with the federal government about mandated levels of students from poor backgrounds, with financial rewards for meeting these targets.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/bright-students-betrayed-by-hsc-20090911-fkq1.html

 

[Aquawhite]

Hmmm, that's an interesing read.

 

[ninetypercent]

interesting. I don't agree that bright students are being betrayed.

What is with the poor capitalisation of words in the article?

 

[ehtefaz.hedayet]

hmmm, that's an interesing read.

+1

 

[el gwapo]

I read this in the smh, and capitalization was fine. What on earth happened?

"since universities began hand-picking some students on the basis of measures other than the uai."
that's the way to go.

but LOL at the Ruse principal defending the HSC. I really can't see her saying anything otherwise.

 

[naisAtoN]

George Cooney, an expert in the calculation of university admissions rankings...

Lol. George Cooney. I did a double-take when I read that.

''What we are looking for is people who are going to grow into champions in the kind of high-quality environment we can provide for them. That is not necessarily the person who ran the fastest race.''

I agree with this. No idea how they could make the system better though, short of examining every person's life progress to judge individual potential. :/

 

[tommykins]

until someone who's made well over (heck, 1,2 points even) their cutoff gets rejected after applying, this system works.

i don't get why people whinge and moan about this twhen my mate who got 72UAI gets into engineering @ uts

 

[Aerath]

Meh, such is life, imo.

 

[ekoolish]

I just skim read it. Can't see how they have been 'betrayed', they still have the same opportunity to make it into their desired course. Yes, the current system may allow for increased numbers of students entering courses that they probably aren't capable of completing, but those students will fail the course and realise that they are better suited for something else. Hard work should be rewarded as much as natural intelligence is.

 

[q3thefish]

Meh, such is life, imo.

Nah man. That is not as cool as the french and I think, the original verson - C'est La Vie.

 

[pman]

load of crap, of course more selective students are going to get into top courses, they are smarter. and private schools try and pick the smartest students as well, and you need intelligent parents to fund private schooling!

 

[Garygaz]

Darwin's theory in action imo

 

[roar84eighty]

but LOL at the Ruse principal defending the HSC. I really can't see her saying anything otherwise.

same reaction for me.
in her position, why remove the system that has kept her school 1st in state for so long
why quote her lol

 

[Napstar]

I went to a shit public school with rampant AIDS on the toilet seats, and our shitty school produced (over the years before/after me);

- a pharmacist
- computer science student
- a medicine student
- me

so you know, it just depends on the students eh. shitty schools can have top students, it just sucks when 90% of the other students are atards

 

[boo92]

as a rural student i think they should be considerate of the people who have to fly down to sydney to look at a uni for a day. study lectures in sydney or newcastle that city kids would go to are out of the question. i did one coz i got it for free (we only had to pay exorbitant costs for travel and accomodation) and then when i didnt go to another one the organisation rang me up, asked why. when i said i lived in tamworth they were like, so, it's inconvenient? and i was like um yes. i just think the system works but students do get disadvantaged by living in rural areas and that should be considered.

 

[brad616]

I definitely agree!!!!

Look at einstein highest iq and teachers said he was going to fail high school. The hsc betrays bright students and leaves them feeling empty in a city with out any police otherwise known as school.

 

[study-freak]

But then no one can suggest a better system though. No academic system in the world is perfect.

 

[Ben1220]

I definitely agree!!!!

Look at einstein highest iq and teachers said he was going to fail high school. The hsc betrays bright students and leaves them feeling empty in a city with out any police otherwise known as school.

ok, but the question is, what kind of other measure could pick Einstein out of the pack when he was at highschool. The 'life story' and 'essays' used by other international universities for example probably wouldn't have worked either. I suppose anyone with very high intelligence and a moderate to moderately low level of motivation could still get 80+ at the least, and get in to something at least somewhat relevant to what they want to learn, and then if they become more highly motivated in the future they could just pick up the pace, get high distinctions and then transfer to something else. Don't forget graduate school either, highly intelligent people will be able to find a way in if they really want to, it might take longer then if they just worked hard at school, but intelligence + motivation is a very powerful combination.

 

[brad616]

ok, but the question is, what kind of other measure could pick Einstein out of the pack when he was at highschool. The 'life story' and 'essays' used by other international universities for example probably wouldn't have worked either. I suppose anyone with very high intelligence and a moderate to moderately low level of motivation could still get 80+ at the least, and get in to something at least somewhat relevant to what they want to learn, and then if they become more highly motivated in the future they could just pick up the pace, get high distinctions and then transfer to something else. Don't forget graduate school either, highly intelligent people will be able to find a way in if they really want to, it might take longer then if they just worked hard at school, but intelligence + motivation is a very powerful combination.

I definately agree with the majority of points you have made. And yes a hihgly intelligent student who is motivated to do work could definately get 80+ atleast regardless of everything they have had to go through (which may or may not be taken into consideration). Put it this way if a highly intelligent and motivated student was severely influenced by circumstances "beyond their control" i.e disability, problems at home, financial hardship etc etc etc and they work really hard to get 80+ just imagine what they could have got had the circumstances been different. I think that I am a didactic example of the person you describe as I believe I have very high intelligence and and strong motivation but was disadvantaged for sooo many reasons in the HSC but still managed to get 80+ and am now working harder than ever and have recently gotten two high distinctions and am aiming to transfer. I do completely agree with your statement though that highly intelligent people will be able to find a way in if they really want to, even if it takes longer!

 

[Cloesd]

I went to a shit public school with rampant AIDS on the toilet seats, and our shitty school produced (over the years before/after me);

- a pharmacist
- computer science student
- a medicine student
- me

so you know, it just depends on the students eh. shitty schools can have top students, it just sucks when 90% of the other students are atards

Not sure if accident or not, but "atards" could be quite a popular term for describing the system and those who advocate it. Im not taking a side here until i get my ranking, just calling it early.