Gay people should not be allowed to access IVF (2 Viewers)

[Enteebee]

it's simply immoral. We can't condemn children to be brought up in that sort of situation. The rights of the child are always more important than those of others. Especially the unborn child.

In what sort of a situation? Surely you acknowledge kids have about as much chance being brought up in a loving, caring environment whether their parents are gay or not.

As for 'the right of unborn children' being more important than the lives of others... I imagine this means if it comes down to an abortion or letting the baby go through and the mother die, you'd choose to have the mother die?

 

[kokodamonkey]

children need a mother and fatherly figure and a gay couple can't provide that. Children need to be brought up in the best possible environment and that is in a nuclear family which means the parents are married.. This is the best way forward.

 

[DavidBenGurion]

children need a mother and fatherly figure and a gay couple can't provide that. Children need to be brought up in the best possible environment and that is in a nuclear family which means the parents are married.. This is the best way forward.

why is it they need a mother and father figure exactly?

 

[Enteebee]

children need a mother and fatherly figure and a gay couple can't provide that.

So single-parent families should be outlawed? The kids separated from the single mums/dads and put into wholesome nuclear families?

Furthermore, why can't a gay couple provide a mother and father figure? I've known gay guys who can be very masculine... and gay guys who can be very feminine... I don't think these are necessary attributes for a wholesome family, but they're certainly not impossible to get from a gay couple.

Children don't need to be brought up in what someone decides is "the best possible environment", all they need is to be loved, nurtured and cared for so that they can go on to live fulfilling lives... certaintly gay couples can provide this.

 

[Silver Persian]

children need a mother and fatherly figure and a gay couple can't provide that. Children need to be brought up in the best possible environment and that is in a nuclear family which means the parents are married.. This is the best way forward.

[citation needed]

So are you a New Right mix of conservatism and liberalism koko? Do Rafy and Kwayera not like you much?

 

[Sgt McMuffins]

As an only child in a single parent family, I cannot beleive the passion you people have towards gay IVF rights. I have first-handedly experienced the inability of my father to provide a motherly balance in the care he has taken of me. I was only 2 when my mother left, and don't even remember her. Even though I know my mother is out there I feel as though a part of me is missing from growing up without her, and I am all the worse for it. Now, I don't see how two same sex people can provide this mother-father balance, and I don't see the right of anybody to put any child into that vulnerable position. Many of the problem I have today, my insecurities, I feel are directly related to this mother-father balance that I have been speaking about which a homosexual couple cannot provide for any child.

I feel your pain. I grew up without a father, and it's screwed me up. It's very painful knowing your different from anyone else at school. I could only imagine, what it would be like for a child to grow up with two mothers, i mean, the bullying, the torment, mental anguish, and what about that awkward conversation that's going to happen, where they're going to have to explain the birds, the bees, and the fact that they're homosexual. Right now, i don't mind gay marriages, as it isn't hurting anybody. but bringing someone up like this is just....wrong. I think these couples are only doing this as a symbol that they're gay, and proud, without thinking properly about how the child will be affected. i hate that.

 

[kokodamonkey]

I don't think it is right to be advocating bringing up children in a household that is not inhabited by a married husband and wife.

The existence of single-parent families is no justification for allowing Gay's to have kids.
I do not want to go on much about single-parent families without hurting anyone's feelings that may be apart of a single-parent upbringing.

But a child is not going to get the proper life and upbringing from a gay household. They need proper male and female figures to look up to and learn from. it is from a child's parents that a child learns how to interact with others. and 2guys or 2girls is not giving children the right ideas in life.

 

[Enteebee]

As an only child in a single parent family, I cannot beleive the passion you people have towards gay IVF rights. I have first-handedly experienced the inability of my father to provide a motherly balance in the care he has taken of me. I was only 2 when my mother left, and don't even remember her. Even though I know my mother is out there I feel as though a part of me is missing from growing up without her, and I am all the worse for it. Now, I don't see how two same sex people can provide this mother-father balance, and I don't see the right of anybody to put any child into that vulnerable position. Many of the problem I have today, my insecurities, I feel are directly related to this mother-father balance that I have been speaking about which a homosexual couple cannot provide for any child.

All sorts of people find difficulties with matters of their family though epic man. Maybe your dad is a bit of a homophobe, you turn out gay and his reaction deeply hurts you... Or any number of similar examples where the fact is, that this idea of the 'perfect and happy' nuclear family is a sham.

I don't think it is right to be advocating bringing up children in a household that is not inhabited by a married husband and wife.

Aren't there more conditions than that though, that you think would make a family 'better' ? Maybe more important than a 'mum and dad' is just having someone who cares a lot about your wellbeing, as I'm sure you'd accept that callous mum & dad families are bound to be worse for a child than a loving homosexual one? Or what about wealth? Should poor families be having children who really can't afford them?

But a child is not going to get the proper life and upbringing from a gay household.

What is a 'proper' life and upbringing? Because to me, the only test would be if you could show that a child brought up by a gay couple is in some way much worse off.... at least, if you think children should still be brought up by the poor, worse off than your average kid who is brought up in a poor household struggling under mountains of debt.

 

[ashie0]

children need a mother and fatherly figure and a gay couple can't provide that. Children need to be brought up in the best possible environment and that is in a nuclear family which means the parents are married.. This is the best way forward.

Did you just pull that out of thin air or do you have anything other than your personal feelings to back it up. So you would prefer a child to have an abusive mother and father over same sex parents? gender and sexual orientation have nothing to do with 'good parenting'.

Thats not forward, thats backward.

 

[Silver Persian]

Any torment that a child receives as a consequence of having homosexual parents is not the fault of the homosexual parents. This is a problem with the social context into which the child was born.

I think you'll find the research suggests that differences in mental state and quality of life between children with gay and straight parents are minimal.

 

[Silver Persian]

I don't think it is right to be advocating bringing up children in a household that is not inhabited by a married husband and wife.

The existence of single-parent families is no justification for allowing Gay's to have kids.
I do not want to go on much about single-parent families without hurting anyone's feelings that may be apart of a single-parent upbringing.

But a child is not going to get the proper life and upbringing from a gay household. They need proper male and female figures to look up to and learn from. it is from a child's parents that a child learns how to interact with others. and 2guys or 2girls is not giving children the right ideas in life.

[citation needed]

Please provide links to peer reviewed journal demonstrating that "2guys or 2girls is not giving children the right ideas in life".

 

[kokodamonkey]

I didn't say that all families are perfect. i am just saying that gays shouldn't be allowed to have kids. It sets a bad example and you have to think of the child's future.

 

[kokodamonkey]

[citation needed]

Please provide links to peer reviewed journal demonstrating that "2guys or 2girls is not giving children the right ideas in life".

How is that sort of life something to promote as good to children?

 

[ashie0]

I didn't say that all families are perfect. i am just saying that gays shouldn't be allowed to have kids. It sets a bad example and you have to think of the child's future.

no it sets an example different to the draconian set of values you seem to hold.
why is this thread even still going?
seriously, if straight people are allowed access to IVF of course gay couples should be.
end of discussion

 

[Enteebee]

I didn't say that all families are perfect. i am just saying that gays shouldn't be allowed to have kids. It sets a bad example and you have to think of the child's future.

I am thinking of the child's future though! I don't think a child is any worse off in a gay family than in a myriad of other types of families (families where one or both parents are addicted to drugs, gambling, whatever.... or where the father barely ever sees the kid because he's working all the time, idk) and I'm waiting for you to offer me some sort of evidence that this would be the case.

I don't need peer reviewed journals, I just want to know your own hypothesis about what it is about living within a gay family that makes it so bad for a child's future.

We happen to know, from things such as the early kibbutz in israel, let alone various other examples that nuclear families are not a necessity.

How is that sort of life something to promote as good to children?

You make it sound like growing up with two dads would be hell :/

 

[Kwayera]

How is that sort of life something to promote as good to children?

Who do you think it's bad to "promote to children" (as if promoting it to children could fundamentally change their sexuality to something you see as bad. Newsflash: it can't)?

 

[Kwayera]

I don't think it is right to be advocating bringing up children in a household that is not inhabited by a married husband and wife.

The existence of single-parent families is no justification for allowing Gay's to have kids.
I do not want to go on much about single-parent families without hurting anyone's feelings that may be apart of a single-parent upbringing.

But a child is not going to get the proper life and upbringing from a gay household. They need proper male and female figures to look up to and learn from. it is from a child's parents that a child learns how to interact with others. and 2guys or 2girls is not giving children the right ideas in life.

Prove it.

 

[Enteebee]

Idk I think if I grew up in a society where being gay was far more accepted / "normal" my likelyhood of turning out gay would somewhat increase.... I don't think making it an acceptable thing is indoctrinating it in any way though.

 

[Sgt McMuffins]

I don't think it is right to be advocating bringing up children in a household that is not inhabited by a married husband and wife.

The existence of single-parent families is no justification for allowing Gay's to have kids.
I do not want to go on much about single-parent families without hurting anyone's feelings that may be apart of a single-parent upbringing.

But a child is not going to get the proper life and upbringing from a gay household. They need proper male and female figures to look up to and learn from. it is from a child's parents that a child learns how to interact with others. and 2guys or 2girls is not giving children the right ideas in life.

Exactly

 

[Iron]

Koko speaks some truths hey amen amen. Always good to see the usual suspects wincing!