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The Great Gatsby (2 Viewers)

tyrthunder

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Anyone else doing this awful book?

The study on it is ridicuoulsy boring and I'm finding difficulty in trying to answer the questions.....our half yearly's will be fun lol.
 

KillerIsMe

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Yep.
It's not that bad really.
Watch the movie, after I read it I hated it, and watched the movie to make sure I understood it.
I'm getting horrible context questions about it because we are comparing it to Elizabeth Barrett-Browning poetry..
I wish we were doing Bladerunner :( :( :(
Oh well, not many teachers are cruel enough to pick Gatsby, so we aren't being tested against heaps and heaps of schools.

Let me know if you need help I'm starting to write some essays and if you have any notes to help that would be awesome

-Ash x
 

tyrthunder

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Heya, we just started watching the movie today and just received the Elizabeth Barrett-Browning poetry today along with our assessment.
The movie is much more tolerable except Daisy is exeedingly annoying! lol.
Yes, I am struggling with the questions with context as well and thank you, I will definitely post once I have some interesting notes. :)
Yeah I wish we were doing Bladerunner too :( Oh well, at least we're a bit more unique by doing this book!
xo
 

SWSydneytutor

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The people who dislike The Great Gatsby, with all due respect, probably do not understand it.

The green light across the river is just that, the green light. It's sad that teachers have not been doing this book justice. It is a Modernist masterpiece that is often overlooked, but F. Scott Fitzgerald was a genius.

I wrote an essay on it and its context - if you would like it, please message me. It is so much more interesting when you realise that what Fitzgerald has essentially done is provide his own commentary on American society in the 1920's - bootlegging, the Depression, deterioration of the American Dream etc.

I would have given anything to do this text.

I have posted this essay later on in the thread. Please do not PM me anymore. :spzz::)
 
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Absolutezero

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Make sure you study all the character links. I read this book by choice recently, but found the links between characters difficult to grasp at first. If the links aren't there, then it will appear a very disjointed book. Once you work out where everyone fits, the whole novel just slides into place, and can be appreciated for what it is.
 

KillerIsMe

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I think I am just pessimistic about it because we could be doing Bladerunner/BNW instead.

It is a good story line, but comparing it to EBB just bores me.

can anyone tell me, are these three essay questions the same thing?

Q1. To what extent does the time in which composers live influence their response to enduring human concerns? Discuss with reference to your two prescribed texts.
Q2. ‘The values of each age are reflected in the texts which are composed in them.’ To what extent do the two ‘texts in time’ you have studied lead you to accept this statement?
Q3. ‘Despite having been composed in different times texts can reflect the enduring values which human beings share.’ To what extent do the two ‘texts in time’ you have studied lead you to accept this statement?

i am having trouble distinguishing them, we will get one of three for our half yearly...
 

amynicolemares

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Yep.
It's not that bad really.
Watch the movie, after I read it I hated it, and watched the movie to make sure I understood it.
I'm getting horrible context questions about it because we are comparing it to Elizabeth Barrett-Browning poetry..
I wish we were doing Bladerunner :( :( :(
Oh well, not many teachers are cruel enough to pick Gatsby, so we aren't being tested against heaps and heaps of schools.

Let me know if you need help I'm starting to write some essays and if you have any notes to help that would be awesome

-Ash x

I am at a small school in western sydney. we have about 50 people in year 12 40 of which do advanced english. there are two classes. The other class did emily dickinson poetry for belonging and are doing frankenstein and bladerunner. my class has just done the crucible for belonging and now have just finished our in depth analysis on the Great Gatsy. Tomorrow we are starting the Aurora Leigh Poems. I liked the Great Gatsby and i'm not really a fan of english to be honest. I prefer maths were there is just one right answer and you get it or don't. how have you guys found the poetry? anyway i better be off have maths at school tomorrow at 7am.
 

SWSydneytutor

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Hey guys, I've decided to post my essay up here for some reference. It was written for a Modernism module we did for extension. A few notes:
- All the footnotes present in the original essay were removed because while the essay was originally written with MS Word, I no longer have that installed and have been using its primitive, so the footnotes just disappeared.
- I have used Eliot's imagery in The Waste Land as an extended metaphor throughout the whole essay - the image of the wasteland, symbolising the moral degradation of society which both Eliot and Fitzgerald were aware of, binds my essay and is quite a neat little connection between my thesis and my chosen texts.
- Please do not plagiarise this essay. I have posted it up for educational purposes - take ideas, but don't take the wording.
- My essay's expression is not that good. It was written in year 11.

Gatsby’s Waste Land

by SWSydneytutor

Examining Modernist texts for their author’s views of society, with particular emphasis on the social commentaries of F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby and T.S. Eliot’s The Waste Land on Western society in the 1920s.

Modernism has transcended decades, nations, mediums and cultures, and though we may never arrive at a universally accepted definition of Modernism, most Modernist texts seem to have one common feature. Acutely aware of their surroundings, Modernist writers produced their texts in response to the grand scale of change in the early 20th century. Some expressed their delight while others severely criticised their country’s modernisation. Some marvelled at the sight of cities rising from towns before their eyes, while some saw overwhelming social and or economic changes coincide with the moral corrosion of society.

Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby and Eliot’s The Waste Land are prime examples of the latter, their creators focusing on the moral decay of 1920s Western society. They reflect their artists’ view in response to social and economic factors of society, all of which heavily influence their composition – after all, how could these texts exist or hold the same meaning if we removed their social context? Once read with the social context in mind, we can relate the dominant forces of society – such as the growth of consumerism and industrialisation to what both Fitzgerald and Eliot saw as the moral disintegration of society during the 1920s.

Both texts refer to the period where the world was recovering from the devastating impacts of World War One. For Fitzgerald and Eliot, and indeed many other Modernists, the post-war period represented a period of significant social changes, and where the affluence that Western society had enjoyed before the War blossomed once more. Fitzgerald and Eliot saw how such focus on material possessions and social changes could compromise the moral integrity of people living in Western society. Bradbury, in his essay F. Scott Fitzgerald Captured the Spirit of His Generation describes The Great Gatsby as “a story of a gross, materialistic, careless society of coarse wealth spread on top of a sterile world.” (Bradbury, p 37) We can draw parallels between The Great Gatsby and Eliot’s The Waste Land, where this “sterile world” can also describe the bleak atmosphere in which the poem is set.

Though The Great Gatsby appears as a story of a man’s unrequited love for a woman, it deals one of the harshest criticisms of American society in all of 20th century literature. Set primarily set in New York City, a centre of economic boom in the 1920s, there are two major settings: West Egg and East Egg, where their inhabitants show a mutual dislike of each other, but represent classes which have reached the upper echelons of wealth. Gatsby is described as having an own private beach, a Rolls-Royce and other luxuries, highlighting the prosperity that many Americans enjoyed in the post-war period. However, Fitzgerald’s criticism of America, and in particular, the retrogression of the American Dream – the belief early settlers had that through hard work and determination, one could prosper – remains a recurring theme. We are led to believe that Gatsby did not earn his wealth through “hard work and courage” per se, and rather, his association with shady characters such as Meyer Wolfshiem, makes it easy to infer that Gatsby obtained his riches through illegal means. Such a social phenomena highlights the realities of 1920s America, where though the outcome of the American dream held true, the means by which people used to acquire wealth changed dramatically, with many turning to criminal activities to earn their wealth. Many people acquired their fortune by participating in the bootlegging industry which arose in lieu of the 18th Amendment to the US Constitution, which prohibited the sale and consumption of alcohol and could be only one of the many factors which spurred Fitzgerald to produce such a scathing criticism of American society.

Fitzgerald and Eliot question society’s moral philosophies is through symbolism. Fitzgerald highlights the corruption of the American dream through its society’s endless pursuit of wealth with the image of God, while the image of a polluted river permeates through The Waste Land. In The Great Gatsby, Fitzgerald places the Valley of the Ashes in the background, yet it holds more significance than its literal presence in the text suggests. Geographically, the Valley of the Ashes is between West Egg and New York; it is desolate and grey, where the poor live. Furthermore, the eyes of Doctor T.J. Eckleburg “brood on over the solemn dumping ground” and though it is never explicitly stated in the novel, many perceive the eyes of God who looks over the moral decay the Valley of the Ashes represents. The Valley of the Ashes and its presence encapsulates the unpleasant realities underneath the lavish facades of the Eggs, where corruption and immoral activities take place.

Eliot, in The Waste Land, on the other hand, calls upon traditional meanings of rivers and manipulates its meanings to highlight the negative impacts of industrialisation. In the poem, the river is seen as polluted, most prominent in the following two excerpts:

While I was fishing in the dull canal 189
and
The river sweats 266
Oil and tar
The barges drift
With the turning tide 270

Though rivers are traditionally regarded as symbols for life and renewal, they are described as dirty and contaminated. “River” here has been reduced to a “dull canal”. While on the surface, the pollution of the river is a side effect of industrialisation, the way the river is described underscores the way Eliot feels about his society: industrialisation has polluted much more than the river - morals have been polluted too. In Radeljkovic’s essay Our presence In, he suggests that a major reasons why The Waste Land was written was to provide a commentary on society’s strongest selfish desires and that the reader is also living in a world with lost moral and religious principles. The atmosphere which clouds The Waste Land is described as self-destructive, that somehow 1920s society had themselves created this stark, desolate waste land, a metaphor for their own absent moral cores. A study of early 1920s Western society sheds light on what Radeljkovic points out. As America boomed in its economy, Europe’s economy took longer to repair. Though their economies suffered, the post-war era is marked by society’s return to their high living standards which had been enjoyed before the war. In this case, when The Waste Land is applied to Europe, the rise of industrialisation and the moral corrosion of society do not coincide. The wealth Europeans had enjoyed during their industrial years and the thought of this kind of luxury, however, means that we can trace the degradation of Europe’s morals to its industrialisation. From the wealth of symbolic devices present in both The Great Gatsby and The Waste Land, it is clear that we can examine both for their creators’ views about Western society and their belief that though industrialisation of the modern world has contributed greatly to the economic freedoms of the time, they also marred society’s code of conduct.

Both Fitzgerald and Eliot explore the impacts of modernisation, and place special emphasis on the idea of disillusionment, the feeling where the text’s characters come to the realisation that all is not as they seemed. Bewley recognises that The Great Gatsby “is an attempt to determine that concealed boundary that divides the reality from the illusions.” (Bewley, p 38). Bewley argues that Gatsby’s society is one where boundless pursuits of material possession, with the rise of industry has deluded its people into believing that wealth will achieve both financial and personal goals. One example Bewley uses in his essay is Gatsby’s longing for Daisy and the means by which he sets out to win her affections. Placing the immorality of courting a married woman aside, Gatsby hosts lavish parties in the hope Daisy will come, to rekindle their romantic history. Bradbury describes Gatsby as a “dandy of desire, a desire that has been redirected from its human or material object into a fantasy a dream of retaining a past moment in an endless instant of contemplation.” (Bradbury, p 107). He is referring to the past love between Gatsby and Daisy that Gatsby wishes to reignite, something that is simply impossible. It is clear that Fitzgerald has emphasised the degree to which money has taken over 1920s society, even clouding their own moral judgements.

In The Waste Land, the disillusionment of society is created by the post-war sentiment, one of the dominant forces in the 1920s, and not by the financial pursuits of characters in The Great Gatsby. The poem has a bleak tone, which contributes to Eliot’s representation of the Waste Land – as a barren, dispirited world where society has experienced a “moral death”. The Waste Land’s people are described in the following lines:

A crowd flowed over London bridge, so many (62)
I had not thought death had undone so many.

This “death” as Eliot calls it, refers to the spiritual disintegration of 1920s society. This is also apparent in the joyless sexual encounters some of his characters experience. One example of this is the couple who prefer to play chess than have sex, and another is a man who satisfies his lust and leaves the woman, who does not notice “her departed lover”. Eliot singles out intercourse – traditionally an act of intimacy and connection between a couple, and suggests that the intimacy people once had with each other is based on pleasure rather than love, and that relations between people – not necessarily sexual – are no longer present. Eliot therefore presents 1920s society as a spiritless, morally debased society.

Modernist writers differed in style and content which broke away from traditional forms of prose and poetry. However, we find that many share similar characteristics and similar themes. In this case, through Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby and T.S. Eliot’s The Waste Land, we can see that many Modernist writers wrote about the world around them and the world they struggled to make sense of. One primary concern both artists had in common was this idea that many of the forces which dominated 1920s Western society, such as the industrialisation and the disillusionment caused by post World War One affected the lives of people living in the 1920s, affecting their morals, values and their spiritual connection with those around them.
- Oh, and what the heck, I'm also available for tutoring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
 
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Ostentatious

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This is creepy. It's like, more than a coincidence. On Friday in English, I brought up a point that The Great Gatsby (specifically, the description of the valley of the ashes) had a great resemblence to TS Eliot's The Wasteland. When I said that, it got me thinking - a lot of things became clear to me from then on. Thank you so much for posting this, because you've just made me confident on my thoughts :)
 

cjosie16

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The people who dislike The Great Gatsby, with all due respect, probably do not understand it.

The green light across the river is just that, the green light. It's sad that teachers have not been doing this book justice. It is a Modernist masterpiece that is often overlooked, but F. Scott Fitzgerald was a genius.

I wrote an essay on it and its context - if you would like it, please message me. It is so much more interesting when you realise that what Fitzgerald has essentially done is provide his own commentary on American society in the 1920's - bootlegging, the Depression, deterioration of the American Dream etc.

I would have given anything to do this text.
Heyy, i am studying the context of the great gatsby and Elizabeth barrett browning poetry,
if you have a context comparison essay i would greatly appreciate it to help out!!
thankyou,, x
 

Ostentatious

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Same here, I'm so hopeless at this. Is anyone going to those seminars they're holding at Pitt St.?
 

Becky222

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im doing it as well. does anyone know any good websites or study guides for Elizabeth Barrett Browning, i cant find anything...

I also have to do a really hard essay on the context of gatsby and its really tricky because there is so much in it that its hard to tell what they want and dont want. If anyone had any hints or examples of this i would really appreciate it as well :)

Good luck with it everyone.
 

Smile_Time351

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Hey all,

unfortunately, we at Bankstown Grammar have had this book inflicted upon us as well, and while I can appreciate its literary qualities, it simply can't hold my interest.
On the issue of context, the problem is that there were a great deal of interesting things going on in 1920s America, but they don't feature in the book to a large enough extent that one can write a good essay on it.
My advice would be to compile a list of all the events of the 1920s under sub-headings (art, science, entertainment, religion etc.), and do the same thing for the 1860s. Anything that evokes even the faintest sense of similarity, put in your essay. It may not seem important to you, but done well enough in an essay, it wont matter.
Good luck!
 

Ray_West

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Yeah we got Gatsby and EBB too
Has anyone found some nice notes on gatsby or EBB?
Would really help for upcoming assessment

Much Appreciated
 

29smash29

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yea were going to the study day at Pitt St, should be fun i spose

does anybody have any clear links between the texts? like we have a few but there are none that stand out..just wondering if anyone had any helpful ideas???
 

andiakhs

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For everyone doing the Great Gatsby and E.B.B poetry, have a look at this page. I haven't had a chance to look at all the pages on it, but thought it could be of some use to you :)

Gatsby_Browning
 

Ostentatious

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Very nice. A quick resource to find the contrasts in contexts :) Thank you!
 

youngs

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anyone with more info on Elizabeth Browning and Great Gastby plz let me kno. thank cus i am sooo lost

:confused::bomb:
 

youngs

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so what were the contrasts between the two contexts

they are years apart and nothing is similar

and u can hardly link it to the novel or the poetry
 

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