Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of her (1 Viewer)

[Trefoil]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

Hahahaha. Talking to you is gold. The main reason you can think of for not banning alcohol is "because it wouldn't be allowed".

 

[incentivation]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

Hahahaha. Talking to you is gold. The main reason you can think of for not banning alcohol is "because it wouldn't be allowed".

Again, I said that where? Talking to you is gold. You seem to read words that aren't there.. Moron

Impractical somehow means permission?

Maybe it's those e's affecting your concentration..

 

[Graney]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

It's no surprise the the majority of those supporting decriminalisation/legalisation of MDMA on here are the users.

ad hominem.
You're implying we're only for legalisation for selfish, personal gain and don't give a fuck about the societal implications.

I've only used pills about four times in my life. Really, I hardly ever smoke weed, mabye once a month average.

I'm pretty sure Ben Netanyahu, John Oliver would be using a few times a year or less. Trefoil said he doesn't like pills.

It is possible to come to ideological conclusions that go beyond simple short-sighted personal gain.

The support from legalisation comes from our collective belief in personal freedoms, the reality that prohibition has failed to do anything about arresting safe usage rates, and the evidence that society and those who will choose to use drugs will be safer with a regulated and decriminalised market for MDMA.

It's insulting to paint us as simple selfish, short-sighted drug abusers.

However there is only little research on the implications of repeated use in the long term.

Who's fault is it that research isn't being done? It's hard to uphold the precautionary principle when research is outlawed.

I still don't see any rationale for potentially increasing the use of the drug in society.

Under the current regime, people die due to contaminated pills. Less people would die. It's pretty simple.

 

[incentivation]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

Under the current regime, people die due to contaminated pills. Less people would die. It's pretty simple.

The last part is an assumption. A regulated market would not necessarily dissolve the current market. It would have to produce a cheaper product. It's probable that cheaper alternatives would still continue to be made, with all the harmful additives, and thus the same problems exist.

The notion that 'users will know not to buy on the black market for that reason' is a fallacy. The idea of potential harm does not deter people at present (in relation to all forms of drugs), and I doubt it would in the future.

The societal implications of use extend beyond death.

Alcohol doesn't cause the death of a great number of people each year, however the implications for the health system, law and order etc are extensive.

 

[Graney]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

Alcohol doesn't cause the death of a great number of people each year.

ho ho ho

Shows how much you know

'Outrageous' alcohol-related death rates criticised - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Alcohol-Caused Deaths and Hospitalisations in Australia, 1990-1997.ing
During 1997, 3290 Australians died from injury and disease caused by high risk drinking

I can't find the modern figures for drinking, but according to this, transport accidents account for about 1600 deaths a year in 2006.
3303.0 - Causes of Death, Australia, 2006

Twice as many people die from alcohol related causes than transport causes. About 2.5% of all deaths are due to alcohol.

 

[katie tully]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

this story could have easily been about rape

"unscrupulous people for taking advantage"

raep

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

Again, I said that where? Talking to you is gold. You seem to read words that aren't there.. Moron

Yeah actually Trefoil is a bit of a tard.

MDMA is less harmful than cocaine in the short term. Great. However there is only little research on the implications of repeated use in the long term. None positive of course (psychiatric and behavioural changes in particular). I still don't see any rationale for potentially increasing the use of the drug in society.

Good point about the long term medical effects. If mdma was proven to be damaging in the long term then my opinion would change. It's been around for a while though and not much has really surfaced of any note. I dare say that if there was anything to worry about in the long term, that we'd know quite a bit about it by now.

I'm pretty sure Ben Netanyahu, John Oliver would be using a few times a year or less. Trefoil said he doesn't like pills.

Nah I don't. I only use marijuana, very occasionally now. interest in drugs comes mainly from the chemistry/research rather than from extensive personal use ^_^

 

[Graney]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

I find it impossible to wrap my head around how people don't think objective measures of relative harm should be important in deciding the legal status of various drugs.

The anti-mdma decriminalisation, yet pro-alco status quo argument basically seems to go "We have these laws, we've had these laws for a while, this is the law, it's the way the law has been and always should be, the law is definetly correct because it's the law,

In summary, the law"

If you were all "ban alco", I'd disagree, but I could respect that and would be all , but basically you all seem to be hypocrites, who try to obfuscate the fact MDMA is definetly much safer than booze. Where are your higher principles, where are your ideals, where's your backbone?

 

[Graney]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

The last part is an assumption. A regulated market would not necessarily dissolve the current market. It would have to produce a cheaper product. It's probable that cheaper alternatives would still continue to be made, with all the harmful additives, and thus the same problems exist.

The illegal market would find it pretty fucking hard to compete if the government allowed regulated private companies to set up in competition and banned the illegal market, still made dealing from unlicenced vendors illegal and offered a reasonable product at a comparable price.

If the government sold pills for the same price dealers do now, they'd make a killing in tax revenue.

Hell look at booze, homebrew is legal even, but people still mostly prefer the governments taxed product. There is no trade in homebrew, no one pays for mates homebrew. Homebrew comes at a fair larger relative price discount than the illegal pill dealers could possibly cut costs, yet people still pay through the nose for the known product.

Pills are a luxury good. It's not a necessity. Price-point is much less of a motivator than other factors. The average pill user wants the guarantee of a good time and will happily pay a small premium for that assurance.

Also, considering the number of dud pills usually sold on the market, that give little/undesireable effects, rational individuals in the market would quickly discover it would work out cheaper to buy the official regulated pills and save yourself being ripped off.

The notion that 'users will know not to buy on the black market for that reason' is a fallacy. The idea of potential harm does not deter people at present (in relation to all forms of drugs), and I doubt it would in the future.

Pretty sure people would pay $5 to be sure they're buying a product that won't kill them.

 

[Russdog]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

new group guise

 

[Graney]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

new group guise

You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

 

[Riet]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

Really? I never knew.. You're the moron for even considering that I thought he was being serious.

It's no surprise the the majority of those supporting decriminalisation/legalisation of MDMA on here are the users. Similarly, those opposing it are probably of the conservative kind.

MDMA is less harmful than cocaine in the short term. Great. However there is only little research on the implications of repeated use in the long term. None positive of course (psychiatric and behavioural changes in particular). I still don't see any rationale for potentially increasing the use of the drug in society.

Sure, permit the use medicinally in a controlled environment to utilise the positive effects of the substance. That is a very different issue.

Cocaine is second only to like heroin and nembutal in terms of long term effects.

 

[Graney]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

The "omg unknown long-term consequences" seems to me to be grasping at straws. In the face of overwhelming evidence MDMA is plainly virtually harmless in the short-term, the anti-decriminalization crowd is forced to be hysterical about unknown consequences, with no evidence.

MDMA has been used widely for almost 30 years now. Cases of terrible long term side-effects aren't exactly abundant. If there are long term consequences, they're certainly less than alcohol.

 

[Riet]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

"It could have long term health effects!"
"So let us conduct scientific research on MDMA, you banned it before we had a chance."
"Wtf are you some faggot raver?"

 

[Graney]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

To overtake alcohol in long-term harm, MDMA would have to become the leading cause of liver disease, would have to cause greater 4% of all cancer cases, be addictive, cause a range of mental health problems, cause pancreatitis, epilepsy, alcoholic dementia. nutritional deficiencies, sexual dysfunction and death.

That sure is a lot of problems to discover to justify protecting people from themselves!

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

Cocaine is second only to like heroin and nembutal in terms of long term effects.

no need to single out nembutal, guy.

 

[Serius]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

any drug that is about the same or of less harm than alcohol, fuck it, legalize or at least decriminalize them.

Weed? i have no idea why that is even illegal, it causes almost no harm, is non-addictive, has many medicinal and spiritual uses, cheap to grow, widespread in use[tax monies] source of hemp etc.

Ecstasy? whatever, i dont much like it myself, but it isnt particularly harmful either. Let people have their happyness and atleast acknowledge that making it illegal hasnt decreased usage at all. Even if you are against personal freedoms, people are going to get it anyway and line the pockets of criminals who might put bad shit in it as well. legalise

crack? heroine? coccaine? by all means study it, but i see no reason to legalize it just yet.

tldr: legalize soft drugs which have minimal harm like weed and ecstasy

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

alcohol is not a soft drug

should alcohol be banned?

 

[Graney]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

Ban everything.

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

Re: Drugs kill daughter, parents blame unscrupulous people for taking advantage of he

ban harmful substances that do more harm than good.

like alcohol

liberty is not the be all and end all!!!1!